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ready hello good afternoon and welcome to yet another press

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conference you had a difficult day today but I think this is the last one so um

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we have with us uh Miss Franchesca Alban special reporter on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian

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territory occupied since 1967 uh Miss was appointed uh by the

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Human Rights Council as independent expert in May of 2022 so we’ll first ask

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her to um tell us a little bit about her work in the report and then there’ll be

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time for questions over to you uh thank you very much good

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afternoon everyone um I just presented my fifth report um third to the general

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assembly which has a very uh harrowing title

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genocide as Colonial Erasure and as I say in the first lines of the report

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this is something that were walks on the heels of my previous report what I presented to the Human Rights Council in

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March this year where I concluded that based on my findings over five months of

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Investigation there were reasonable grounds to believe that Israel had committed acts of genocide in in U in

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Gaza and I’ve continued to investigate what do happened in Gaza but also the

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rest of the occupied Palestinian territory after presenting that

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report I um I can say that for over one year I’ve

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pleaded all concerned to all concerned parties uh particularly those States who

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can exert more influence on the state of Israel to take concrete actions to stop

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the destruction of Gaza the destruction of the Palestinian people to ensure the

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prompt and unconditional release of all hostages both Israelis and Palestinians

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and to ensure international law is respected and had international law been

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respected at least in the last 12 months this would have stopped it should have

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stopped it should have been stopped by the security Council last October he should have been stopped uh after the

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first set of provisional measures issued by the international court of justice it

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should have stopped when I presented my first report it should have stopped before Rafa was invaded or before the

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invasion of Lebanon and instead the silence or worst the justification

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of a small but influential number of states as continue to enable and to to

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nurture the ubis that leads Israeli conduct as we as we speak the

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developments on the grounds are are gruesome and uh it is

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long it has actually since the beginning the the the the the the violence the

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genocidal violence that I have described in my first report uh has expanded and metastized in

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other parts of the occupied Palestinian territory and if you look at the patterns of violence the destruction of

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Civilian infrastructure roads energy geds uh water pipelines and Reservoir

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homes and if you look at the numbers of extrajudicial killings

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in the West Bank as well on top of the 42,000 Palestinians who have been killed

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a certain killed in Gaza including 177,000 children how do we explain the

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700 over 700 Palestinians have been killed in um in the West Bank including

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170 children and how do we explain the uh the fact that the

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Palestinians from the West Bank have been exposed to the same practices and

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abuses often rape among other forms of

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torture um than those in Gaza if there was no Hamas military action or presence

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in the West Bank not that the the first Justified what Israel has done in Gaza

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but again not only we see the past reproducing itself in the occupied

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Palestinian territory we see the same indifference the same uh ability to look

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away of many member states and International Community and we see a total collapse of the international

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order which is premised upon the never again that was promised after the second

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world war and particular in particular after the Holocaust and the genocide

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mostly Jewish people

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um I’m I’m very happy to take your questions I know what um what else what

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else to say other than um it’s not been an easy year because surely it has been

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reluctantly that I took on the the functions of chronicler of genocide and

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it’s extremely disturbing to see member states pontificating and questioning and

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um and uh obscuring the meaning of international law and dehumanizing the

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victims of this um of this last of this last 12 months but however should you

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have any questions I’m here yeah you do okay um we have Abdul

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Hamid thank you so much my name is Abdul Hamid from the Arabic da alabi

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thank you for coming again to talk to us I have few questions first you have been

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personally attacked as always the case when someone criticizes Israel then they

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try to attack that person personally like Graham buul with horaa lazarini now

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Karim Khan many others so how do you uh take these uh personal attacks on you and the

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second as you know international law allows

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people under occupation and foreign domination to resist I mean they become Heroes I mean

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we have a statue of Mandela here and because he was resisting upper thide

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many of the great leaders of modern time were at at one stage fighting

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colonialism why only when the Palestinians fight occupation they are labeled as terrorist thank

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you um to be very clear I don’t think that

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Israel is the only state that attacks special repur special repur get attacked

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when they uh scrutinize the human rights records of member

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states uh and there are states who are more vorous and virulent than others

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what it’s striking in the case of Israel is that is that there is a cohort of

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States who Echoes and reverberates what Israel says and does

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and there and there is um an army of minions at work to um to uh

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produce literally Fabrications that have one and only one objective to distract

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the attention from where it should stay so I will not entertain any discussion

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about how I take these attacks because they’re not just against me they have been against the special reporter on the

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occupied Palestinian territory who preceded me uh and this year in particular the Secretary General has

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been vilified and even declared Persona nrata welcome to the club and um and so

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the general assembly what is more shocking to me is that this year the United Nations have

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been under an unprecedented military attack 70% of Anda premises have been

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hit by Israeli fire and uh which has also hit peacekeepers in

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Lebanon and uh the United Nations humanitarian functions have been

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hampered at a at the moment where they were the only bul the bul workk to

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continue to provide provide assistance to to the Palestinians in extreme in an

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extreme situation of distress and it’s because of that that I do believe that

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while Israel is by no means the only state that violate violates international law and it’s not even the

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only states that violate that violate uh the right of self-determination of a people but it’s

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surely unique in the determination the the the the the protracted

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of of this conduct and the fact that Israel has never faced any consequences

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and indeed I do believe that the impunity that has been granted to Israel

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has allowed it to become a Serial violator of international law which is

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the reason why I recommended that this is the time as it has been for aparti South Africa to consider uh for the

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general assembly to consider uh the the suspension I mean recommending the the

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the revision or the suspension of Israel’s credential as credentials as a member of the United Nations until uh it

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ends uh violating international law until he withdraws the occupation uh

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which is clearly unlawful also by determination of the international court of justice and surely uh until it

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continues it’s a genocidal attack on the

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Palestinians um you and then

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M hi my name is newspaper good to see you again um I

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have two follow-ups first on the issue of suspension uh of Israeli membership

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or uh to the if you could elaborate on that and uh whether you believe this is

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something that will get um um majority in the general assembly um and then um

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my other question is regarding a third Pary role in the war that’s going on

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whether it has to do with delivering weapons uh I mean their responsibility

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when it comes to international law and the lack of um Mo them taking any steps

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and in and basically supporting so the accountability for not

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only for isra but also for third parties and the last thing in your remarks today

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to the comittee you talked about the lack of empathy that you are seeing by some member states H in uh not um um

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even expressing um any empathy for the Palestinian victims and uh could you and also the

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issue of uh the many states um talking about human rights in academic um uh

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Contex or theoretical context but when it comes to the issue of Palestinian human rights uh they are even attacking

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uh students they’re not allowing uh or attacking people who demonstrate against

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the war if you could also touch on that thank you so much yeah thank you first of all I should uh briefly respond on

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the second question sorry I missed it um regarding resistance and I think I’ve

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said it before including in this uh in this venue that there is no question that the

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Palestinians have the right to resist under international law like all people who are oppressed and who cannot enjoy

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the right of self-determination the right to resist is to a people

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um what the right to self-defense is to

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aate and uh in the same way it has limits so it cannot

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neither can touch civilian life civilian life is scker and should always be

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protected so um I I think that we should always

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remind ourselves and respect respect the fact that October 7 has been an

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unspeakable tragedy for the for the Israelis who call who call that event uh

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the worst terrorist attack they ever suffered and as I I said before for me

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those were surely war crimes to the extent they they targeted that they hit

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civilians um and should have been met by

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Justice this didn’t legitimize the attack on the on the uh on the

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Palestinians like um like if they were the nation responsible because they were

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not and again ref this should have prompt a reflection on the cses on the

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root courses that have led to that horrific day uh which is a horrific day both for

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the Israelis and the Palestinians I want to underline although I think that this

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is not the day the genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza started and

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um um is it is it correct that only the

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Palestinians are the denied of this this this right no I don’t think so I think

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that after um then after 911 there is a

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an in an increasing uh intolerance for

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for people’s claims for self-determination and again we are no

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longer in the decolonization era uh where the right of the right to resist

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was to an extent even celebrated to an extent we are in an era where

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resistance is seen is often seen and labeled as terrorism this is the reality

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for the Palestinians and others um concerning the the suspension so

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there are there are different issues there but um what I what I refer to is

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article six of the UN Charter which says that when I member of the United Nations

16:00

persistently persistently violates the principles containing contained in the

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UN Charter it might be expelled from the organizations and there should be from

16:12

the organization and there should be uh a decision of the general ass a general assembly upon recommendation of the

16:19

security Council um there have been cases where the impass of the security Council has

16:26

been circumvented by by by a decision of the general assembly to

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act for example uniting for peace and this might be one opportunity to

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consider in this case as well but I would like to take this opportunity to stress that again this is not an what

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prompted me to make that that recommendation is not the fact that

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Israel violates international law full Stope Israel violates international law

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from its birth and international law includes un Security Council resolution

17:04

and general assembly resolution Israel has violated including the UN resolutions that he committed to abide

17:11

by as a condition to become a member of the of the general assembly of the United Nations and uh orders or and

17:20

decisions of the international court of justice and again this year the

17:25

escalation of violence and attacks against the United Nations sets a terrible president that if left

17:33

unpunished might also encourage other states to resort to the same kind of

17:38

venomous reactions toward the the the United Nations losing all respect all

17:45

respect for these organizations and this should not happen this is why I think it should now it’s time to take an Exemplar

17:53

step um considering considering what why did I mention the

18:00

lack of empathy because I have I don’t know if I’m I have the fortune fortune or Misfortune to always present my

18:06

reports to the general assembly after the commission of inquiry

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um which has a team of investigators and so carries out a very thorough uh work

18:19

of a collection of evidence and the gain for the third time I heard the member

18:24

states criticizing the Mandate of the commission which means they don’t even interact with their counterparts in in

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Geneva who have tone down their criticism toward the commission and appreciate the work it does instead of

18:38

engaging on the substance and I’ve heard member states mentioning again October 7 I

18:47

understand I mean I it’s not that I criticize that but like like if history started on October 7 forgetting the 56

18:55

years of Oppression and the and the of thousands if no more Palestinians who had been killed let alone the 1 million

19:02

people who had been arbitrarily detained including many children so it’s it’s a bit Preposterous and and the fact that

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177,000 children have been killed and this was not even mentioned together

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with the full destruction of Gaza made me realize that no life is not worth the

19:23

same and Palestinian life is less worth this for some members States this is a

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fact and I’m and I’m also annoyed by the fact that this issue which is so

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sensitive to to to Millions because again the life of the Palestinians first

19:40

and foremost but also the life of the Israelis for many of them is hell since

19:46

uh since last year and there is this sort of uh let’s

19:52

speak aside attitude in the general assembly one side and the other that again Bears Testament to the to the loss

20:01

of humanity that has penetrated this this institution the comment I made on human

20:09

rights and is and the fact that there has been an erosion of the value of

20:16

human rights in the last 12 months was prompted by the fact that um member

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states who member states who uh praise

20:29

themselves as Defenders of of Human Rights and sponsors of Human Rights including in their international

20:35

relations have not hesitated have not have have engaged in forms of

20:41

repression and cracking down fundamental freedoms of their own citizens in in

20:47

Europe including of Jewish people who are standing in solidarity with the Palestinians for what they were going

20:54

through and this is very uh it’s very telling of the of the bizarre time we

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live uh we live in but especially when it comes to students who are in a way

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the most powerful but also the most the most powerful they’ve been the most powerful voice speaking truth to power

21:13

but also they’re still the most the the most frail part of the society because

21:18

they are investing a lot in building their future and many of them have have seen their future uh undermined

21:25

sacrificed for standing for justice and what kind what kind of message are

21:32

liberal universities in the liberal West sending to the students yes we can teach human rights from our um from our

21:41

podiums in universities but then don’t dare fighting to have them becoming a

21:47

reality for all because this is not your job basically this is the message that is been

21:53

sent about third party ah third party responsibility is um

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there is a clear obligation uh which is General a general principle of

22:04

international law law state responsibility when there is an international wrongdoing of any sort

22:10

violations of international law human rights law international humanitarian law any state has the every state has

22:18

the responsibility not to recognize the legal consequences of the wrongful act

22:25

and not to engage not to Aid and assist assist uh in the commission of the

22:31

wrongful act but rather acting to um to uh lead to the cessation of the same and

22:40

the and ensure reparations nothing of this has been done but now we are also in a context where as the international

22:48

court of justice has recognized the possibility of the genocide uh could be

22:54

committed already in January this triggered the application

23:00

of the genocide convention meaning the obligation to prevent genocide for which

23:06

you don’t have to wait to have acts of genocide fully completed and a people or

23:13

a group completely destroyed you need to act so that genocide doesn’t take place

23:18

and so an arms embargo was uh was a clear obligation the day after the court

23:25

has passed has issued those provisional measures instead the International Community has uh has followed Israel on

23:32

its uh attack against Tandra and so has continue I mean member states continue

23:38

to trade uh with Israel and to transfer

23:44

weapons Mike then Madam Mike wagenheim with I24 news it’s been a while since

23:51

we’ve last spoken um a couple questions for you in your report uh you have a

23:56

line in here that says that since its establishment Israel has TW uh treated

24:01

the occupied people as a hated incumbrance and threat to be eradicated and you go on uh listing other items um

24:11

we’ll leave aside the contextual and factual debate about that based on that statement it seems to infer that you

24:17

believe that Israel has been an occupier since the day of its birth is that your

24:22

position you said since its establishment Israel has treated occupied people Etc are you inferring

24:29

that Israel’s been an occupier since 194 why do you have to infer instead of sticking to what I said I’m asking

24:35

that’s what’s in there let me let me elaborate um Israel

24:40

has taken and we can I can concede that it has done it with uh with the

24:46

recognition of the general assembly from a human rights law point of view and as

24:52

I take a people centered approach I cannot uh I cannot forget it the

24:57

creation of the state of Israel has meant the dispossession of uh hundreds

25:02

of thousands of Palestinians of who have been kicked out of their homes and never allowed to return why

25:09

so and um is it does he make an occupier

25:15

it makes a state it makes of Israel a state who has forci forcibly

25:21

displaced significant part of the native population and this is the past that has never been addressed the pal

25:28

Palestinians with Israeli citizenship who remained in Israel have been kept

25:33

for two decades under military rule and this is why when

25:40

I uh when I when I say an incumbrance I was not even referring to them but as

25:47

you ask I mean this is documented so it’s not debatable it’s it’s history and

25:53

since 1967 which is what I’m most interested in because of the Mandate I have Israel

26:01

has continued as continued this practices has extended the the custodianship system

26:08

that had been used to take control of all the properties left behind by the Palestinian

26:15

refugees but without time limit so from 1967 I think this is military order

26:22

5058 one of one of the early military orders Israel has been able to

26:28

to sa and acquire all the all the property left behind by the Palestinians

26:34

the 350 thousands were forcibly displaced outside the occupied Palestinian

26:41

territory in 1967 and the hundreds of thousand who have been kicked out of their homes and

26:46

lands ever since so there’s been a continuity so

26:51

it’s not just about what has been happening in the

26:58

occupied Palestinian territory for the past 57 years is the fact that

27:03

unfortunately there is a continuity with patterns of conduct that had already

27:08

been enacted in uh in in modern day

27:13

Israel I’m I’m not sure that answers a question but it will have to suffice one other question for you because I know my

27:19

colleagues want to jump in here you know about the controversy surrounding your positions and your statements I’m not

27:26

going to repeat them here but you did comment on social media within the past week and I’m going to read this back to

27:32

you said I’m profoundly committed to human rights for all people how could I ever be an anti-semite a few days ago

27:39

you were supposed to have a briefing with members of Congress uh that briefing was cancelled uh don’t know if

27:47

the the Jewish Lobby was behind it or not but oh you said Jewish Lobby Jewish Lobby watch out because it’s very

27:52

anti-semitic apparently it is I I I was I didn’t use it you did don’t know who you feel was behind it um in any case uh

28:00

you appeared and your appearance there was sponsored by a group called code pink you appeared in a video with the

28:07

co-founder of code pink code pink well documented shills for some of the

28:13

world’s worst human rights violators Maduro Iran where they appeared with

28:19

Holocaust deniers they denied the genocide going on in China of the weager population completely deny it how can

28:26

you say appearing with a group like that that you stand and are committed for human rights for all people and are not

28:34

an anti-semite this group is drawn to you and you happily appear with them while they shill for human rights

28:40

abusers all over the world and only focus in on Israel according to this principle I shouldn’t be asking question

28:47

from uh from journalists for example unless I check their pedigree and I

28:53

explain to you because I was not at an event hosted by good pink check your sources because this is not correct I

29:00

was correct that you appeared in a video with the co-founder can I finish sure you can I was speaking at an event

29:08

organized by B um at B boys and Poets a venue I’ve always uh where I’ve always

29:15

attended wonderful talks then if they have hosted uh people who have terrible

29:21

records I don’t know but I wouldn’t feel responsible and as I was um as I was on

29:26

my way out and look Morales U Meda from code pink approached me and said can I

29:32

ask you a question and I said of course do you mind being a record of course of course not and that is it now do you

29:38

want to add on the on the allegations against me because I gave a I answer a

29:43

question to Meda Benjamin or do I have to check to do a background check of any

29:49

person I talk to order to idea who code pink is you had no prior contact with

29:54

them of course I know who code pink is and I but I don’t apparently I’m not as

29:59

informed as you are thank you for educating me that’s part of my job as a journalist thank

30:06

you thank you very much stepan press

30:13

um I’m sorry because I arrived uh I think you had started

30:18

already a few minutes so I don’t know if you talked about it but uh I heard about when you were talking about the the

30:25

Israeli government accus using you to be anti-semitic but here our anti-Semitism

30:34

but uh did you respond uh did did you respond to that tweet that Ambassador

30:41

Linda Thomas grimfield wrote yesterday uh she wrote that as a un

30:48

special reporter Alban Alban visit New York I want to reiterate the US believes

30:54

she’s unfit for a role the United Nations should not tolerate anti-Semitism from a un Affiliated

31:00

official heart to promote human rights this is the ambassador of United States

31:06

at the United Nation what’s your response to I have the same shock that you have looking at how the United

31:14

States is behaving in this context in the context of the genocide that is unfolding in

31:21

Gaza I’m not I’m not surprised that they

31:26

attack and any anyone who who speaks to the facts that are uh frankly on our

31:35

watch in U in Gaza and uh they do that so um so brutally because they they feel

31:46

called um called out because it’s not that is the United State is simply an

31:52

observer the United States is being in EN an enabler in uh in what Israel has

31:58

been doing so of course they have a conflict of interest in uh in this in

32:04

let’s say orchestrating attacks against uh against anyone who criticizes

32:11

Israel but besides this I really don’t feel comfortable at entertaining any

32:16

longer discussions concerning the attacks against me because it’s not about me and I’m not the story the story

32:23

is the fact that there are Palestinians who risk to be erased from their land

32:29

the questions that journalists should ask I mean this is what I would expect how do you comment on the fact that

32:36

Israel has passed laws that Outlaw a un organization because other member states

32:42

who have a even a worse record than Israel could do the same human rights record than Israel

32:48

could do the same and uh and or how how do I comment the fact that Israel is

32:56

there has been a plan to erase Palestinian presence from northern Gaza

33:01

and the fact that Israel is freely talking about going going back to Gaza and reoccupy Gaza while the

33:07

international court of justice has recognized that the occupation is illegal and must go unequivocally and

33:15

totally this is what I want to talk about because if we keep on entertaining discussions on is she an anti-mite don’t

33:22

I’m I’m sorry think what what you want of me I I will do my job until I have

33:27

this mandate and that is it uh just a quick followup um just to say that is

33:33

about what you have to cover in the sense you if I understood you saying basically don’t don’t focus on me focus

33:41

on on on what I denounce in my reports and so on uh but if I understand that a

33:48

special reporter is effective or could be effective if it maintains is uh uh if

33:57

appears no only his but appears uh neutral or they can you know talk to

34:02

both sides so for now we seeing that US ambassador

34:07

and it’s a personal tweet I mean it’s a tweet attacking you so my simple

34:12

question it’s not a personal question it’s about your work as a reporter in the last let’s say one year could you

34:20

have done something different do you think you could have done something different to maintain your uh you know to be uh more

34:28

effective in in be able to talk to both Sid but it you you seem to be someone

34:36

who measures Effectiveness in talking to both sides and I don’t even understand who both sides are what so can you be be

34:42

more specific on who are the both sides I’m talking as a journalist and

34:48

not talking as I but a journalist say that we see if we do a research uh you

34:54

know we as a journalist that to quote our source and everything and unfortunately and say

35:01

unfortunately uh your name now when you we quote in our article because uh

35:07

according to the report that um Alban wrote

35:13

unfortunately you are considered not by me but by what happened in the situation

35:19

that we have also the I don’t know I don’t remember Ambassador Linda Thomas Greenfield do some an attack like this

35:25

for anybody on on Twitter unfortunately is like it doesn’t make

35:31

your work your reports and what you’re denouncing any more effective but this is your opinion how do you measure

35:38

Effectiveness look let’s cut it short uh first of all there is a an inaccuracy

35:43

and I have to to to be uh clear about that and I don’t want to put the spot on

35:49

you but because I I and thank you for that it gives me the opportunity to clarify but uh an independent expert of

35:56

the United Nations with with a human rights monitoring mandate is not requested to be neutral it’s requested

36:02

to be impartial impartial sorry it’s different it’s different tell me how I

36:07

am partial because I am the the only special reporter who has in investigated violations of international law

36:14

committed by Hamas in my in my second report and the Palestinian Authority and

36:20

I’ve tried I’ve tried to visit the prisons of the Run by the Palestinian Authority and I was prevented from doing

36:26

so by the uh by Israel and who prevented my visit

36:32

and and if you look if you look at the terms of reference of my resolution of

36:38

the resolution creating this mandate my mandate uh obliges me to look at the

36:44

violations committed by Israel So when you say talk to both parties but I I

36:51

understand where what you’re trying to say I should maintain uh a position that

36:57

allow me to be listened to by all member states and this is what I’ve done

37:04

until March this year I’ve had the discussions with everyone in March uh

37:11

already 30,000 Palestinians had been killed and it was clear that there were it was not in the in at the in the

37:18

Horizon that this would stop and again I speak what do I do I I I tell the facts

37:26

and I point to the respons responsibilities of member states of course member states are not pleased

37:32

with it so I don’t particularly take uh I’m not sensitive to the fact that

37:38

Ambassador uh I mean any Ambassador criticizes my work look at it seems that

37:45

there is also some misinformation about the work of special reporter I mean the special reporter on Iran receives criticism by Iran the

37:53

special reporter of Myanmar receives critic criticism by Myanmar what is unique here is that Israel is the only

38:01

state that is absolutely protected and coced by the by most of the West what

38:07

Craig mber calls the seter colonial block yeah and my mandate is the only

38:13

one who in fact stands looking straight in the face at western states so I again

38:19

I take your criticism next time try to be a special rapporter on the op and maybe you will be more effective than me

38:27

we have a we have a question online Don if

38:33

you’re still with us um sure thank you U Miss Al Don

38:39

Clancy with um IPS news I wanted to ask you about one of the recommendations that you make in your report um

38:46

regarding putting some sort of Peace Force um on the ground in in Gaza but I

38:53

do think you say throughout the occupied uh Palestinian territory St I wanted to

38:59

see if you could expand a little bit on what you think that would look like and then I also wanted to ask you how would

39:05

you address the concern that if you put some sort of Peace operation whether

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it’s a force or whatever you want to call it if you put put that on the ground in occupied Palestinian territory

39:17

you leave the and it’s and it’s something that’s mandated by the UN it’s it’s led by the UN you leave the door

39:23

open for some misinterpretation that the UN could be possibly you know fighting

39:30

Israel or squaring up to Israel um instead of it you know being a being some sort of Peace effort and I was just

39:38

wondering how you how you would respond to that thank you

39:43

uh I think that on this question we should really consult uh those who have

39:50

uh great and greater experience than I do with peacekeeping operations because I’m I’m sure that these are concerns

39:57

that have been uh raised in other context as well Israel has no right to

40:04

be in the occupied Palestinian territory no right whatsoever the international

40:10

court of justice has ordered Israel to withdraw uh unconditionally and totally

40:17

as rapidly as possible its military presence dismantling the colonies

40:25

stopping the in the exploitation of natural resources

40:31

on the occupied Palestinian territory and making also reparations now how is

40:36

it going to happen so the having a um

40:41

like what I call protective presence and they um uh intentionally been fluid and

40:49

or ambiguous if you want on this one I’ve not being very prescriptive because I don’t want that the prescriptiveness

40:55

of my ideas on the one hand infringe on the on the will of the parties

41:04

particularly the Palestinians because the Palestinians are the one who need to make this request at this stage there is

41:11

no say for Israel um but this would also make sure that

41:17

there is protection for both Palestinians and Israelis while while the Israelis withdraw the occupation so

41:24

that there is like like a buffer this is as a min minimum um but also because

41:30

there is there is a urgent need a urgent need to um take the Israeli troops out

41:37

of Gaza first and foremost and um and in Gaza the Civil

41:44

order has collapsed because um all possible Hamas the def facto Authority

41:51

related uh Administration officers have been hit Clan structures and Etc and so

41:59

there is a need to have I think a Transit force a

42:04

Transit presence which ensures capacity to restore restablish Law and Order but

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with a very limited time because it’s time for the Palestinians to determine themselves but it’s going to be very

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very hard the longer the Israeli um army remains in Gaza and the rest of the

42:23

occupied Palestinian territory the worst is going to be both for the Palestinians and the

42:31

Israelis can I get one more uh sure Don go

42:36

ahead sorry I also wanted to ask you about the um polio campaign

42:43

um as I’m sure you know there’s the successful first round of the polio campaign this second round is has been

42:51

paused because of the fighting or whatever else is happening in the north of Gaza and i’ and I’ve seen a lot on on

42:59

social media where you know entities especially like Kat will say how can we

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be committing genocide when we are helping um distribute you know polio

43:09

vaccines we’re saving children and and I and I get that you know a vaccine

43:14

against polio isn’t going to vaccine a child against a bomb or a bullet or anything else I’m just wondering how

43:21

that fits into the context of genocide or what what would you say to that uh

43:28

um I think that this confirms my my sense that there is a general

43:34

misunderstanding of what genocide is and what genocidal intent is I’ve said in my first report that um Israel was not

43:42

necessarily denying to have committed I mean that the facts I was

43:47

referring to in the report had occurred like the bombing and the um and the

43:53

killing of of Palestinians on the ground it has qualified them differently and

43:58

I’ve said uh this is humanitarian camouflage Israel uses uh categories of

44:05

international law like humanitarian Zone and collateral damages or human Shields

44:12

to justify and to and to make an excuse that distract from the intent to destroy

44:19

the intent to destroy a people is the determination to reduce the capacity of

44:25

a group to survive um till leading to leading to

44:31

destruction and intent does means that having the intent means that you don’t

44:37

even need to have the completion of the design of the genocidal design is what

44:43

you do to the people and frankly there has been so much pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian Aid so according to

44:50

this reasoning so even the fact that during the starvation campaign that has

44:55

led many to die and to and to get sick because of the lack of food and lack of water and I’ve seen some of them

45:01

including children so the fact that every now and then the starvation campaign was interrupted by some tracks

45:09

allowed in oh so Israel is not really starving the Palestinians I’ve seen that

45:15

the the the vaccination the PO vaccination campaign when it started it was also attacked it had to be

45:21

interrupted how did we get there is it an a a small Act of basic Humanity going

45:28

to hide obscure and mute what has been done for the past 12 months I believe

45:35

it’s not I mean it might be considered as a as a as an exception but it doesn’t

45:40

change the overall course of um the overall course of Israel’s assault on

45:51

Gaza you uh thank you very much Miss Alban and apologies I was listening

45:59

upstairs um a followup on what you’ve just said about uh getting humanitarian

46:07

Aid in um what is your reaction to the

46:13

Israeli legislation passed earlier this week that would been the UN ageny that

46:21

has been a Lifeline forade in Gaza unra um in 90

46:30

days uh three things the act in itself is a poing and it’s a blow for the UN

46:37

Charter and all what multilateralism is uh is premised upon uh which is the

46:45

respect of respect for the United Nations and its programs and agency and

46:50

organs organs and officials um this is

46:56

this is also it’s in two respect it’s this is the second element is part of the colonial what I call the colonial

47:02

eraser the fact that Israel in the pursuit of realizing greater Israel is

47:08

attempting to um reduce uh physically or

47:15

spiritually meaning as a collective the the presence of the Palestinian identity in the occupied Palestinian territory

47:21

which means I mean many of whom are refugees 75% for example of the people in Gaza they’re not even from Gaza

47:28

they’re from Modern Day Israel and um and and

47:33

therefore the their their presence is a continuous reminder for Israel of what I

47:40

call its original sin it’s fact that its creation doesn’t matter the justification behind it I’m not

47:47

questioning this from a Jewish people point of view but it the creation of the

47:53

state of Israel came at a huge price for the Palestinians and it has never been addressed and as I said as after 1967

48:01

has even continue because in the attempt to expand uh Israel’s control over the

48:08

the land Palestinians have been increasingly segregated increasingly

48:14

repressed and now an Andra has remained as the symbol of pal not only of

48:20

Palestinian uh capacity to to resist on the on the on the land

48:27

uh but also Palestinian refugees and so their claims their historical claims and

48:33

their historical demand for justice um this is also part and it has

48:39

huge humanitarian implications because destroying anra uh preventing an from F

48:45

functioning and anra still has the only is the only Remnant uh of the UN large

48:52

capacity to still ensure food distribution or um uh Aid distribution in general or

49:01

medical assistance it’s it’s very everything is very difficult I’m not even sure in fact that this is the case

49:07

because the destruction has been so massive but still anra has the know how to do that and uh this is the third

49:14

element is that this is nothing new Israel has been attacking anra for the past 20 years steadily steadily seeing

49:22

it as part of the problem telling the Israel was registering Palestinian against the

49:29

law for Refugee status and they written widely about that and then I can tell you there has been a Relentless attack

49:37

on anra seen as a symbol of Palestinian and and as a quick followup um the

49:45

United States gave Israel 30 days to um

49:51

get a significant amount of humanitarian

49:56

made into Gaza several weeks ago what was your reaction to to that these are

50:04

drops my reaction is that these are drops in the ocean I don’t understand

50:10

why member States including the United the United States cannot simply follow

50:17

what the law is I mean I’m really I’m really worried by the lawlessness that

50:23

is Advanced here the in again I insist international law says

50:30

that Israel at this point by The Liberation of the decision of the international court of justice Israel

50:36

must withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territory there is also a time limit for that it is September next

50:43

year what the question is what is the United States doing to comply with that

50:49

decision what is the United n States doing to ensure that Israel complies

50:54

with the provisional measures of the international court of justice the rest is um again I think it’s it’s smoke in

51:01

the eyes I’m afraid uh we have another question

51:07

online uh and then maybe one or two more here and I think we will have to finish so

51:12

Jordan online yes good afternoon this is Jordan I partially you answered the my

51:22

question but I have to ask ask the question in different I Ona is not only

51:28

a distributor of Fooda is uh is if you look at the W is work alsoa is the right

51:37

of rain to the people what do you think about that um as you mentioned um 75% of

51:44

the people of Gaza they are not gazans they are um I mean by international law they

51:52

are Israelis they have to go back and become Israeli citizen but they were

51:57

unable to retain uh how can um we solve the Palestinian

52:04

refugees issue with the occupation ending because in 1967 Gaza was not

52:12

occupied but Israel sent 100,000 refugees to it in 2005 Israel

52:19

partially withdraw and then besieged Gaza but the refu is is there in w bank

52:27

and my other question is do you think the war in Gaza actually war on refugees

52:35

and on un because Israel as many authors wrote including maybe yourself is trying

52:42

to eliminate the presence or the issue of Rights of rain and refugees thank you

52:48

so much um

52:53

I I I’m um as some someone who has devoted many years of her life studying

53:01

Palestinian refugees including anra from an academic point of view a scholarly point of view I can tell you no Andra is

53:07

not the guaran of the right of Return of the Palestinian refugees that right is

53:13

ensin in international law is solid solidly built in international law and

53:18

even resolution 194 is not the resolution that create the right of

53:23

return the the resolution 194 is the first uh durable solution map for for

53:31

Palestinian refugees for refugees in fact because it afforded refugees to choose whether to return return to their

53:38

homes or to resettle um so it’s it’s a bit more I

53:45

mean more articulated than uh than that I do um of course I do think I do agree

53:52

that anra is not just a provider of humanitarian assistance but this is also

53:57

one of the elements of criticism that I’ve brought to Andra the sense that Andra has withdrawn itself in

54:06

humanitarian Corner in order to avoid political controversies but the UN

54:12

mandate toward Palestinian Palestine refugees is much broader than that and it also comprises a political Dimension

54:20

that is with another body that was created before Andra it’s the uncp the Newan conciliation Commission for

54:27

Palestine and that’s been um put out of function because again of political

54:33

reasons um concerning the status of Palestinian refugees no under international law they are not Israelis

54:39

under international law they are stateless stateless persons um because under international law yes the state of

54:45

Palestine exists but is still un UN in captivity and so cannot ensure um cannot

54:53

ensure Pro the protection bond that is s of uh of the relation State

55:00

citizen um but besides this besides this

55:06

technicalities what what matters to me is that the general the anra is a is a

55:12

subsidiary body of the general assembly it’s not just a UN agency whatever or a

55:19

un program it’s been established by the general assembly and only the general assembly can decide the future of VRA

55:27

and at the same time uh I was writing this years ago during the Trump

55:33

Administration in fact when there was the first massive attack from a US Administration against anra and it was

55:39

probably the first was quite unprecedented and again this is it’s it’s an attent it’s an assault on

55:46

multilateralism where member states UT utilize their power uh in order to alter

55:54

the the Democratic order that exist or should exist at the international level

55:59

so the United States or Israel or others should discuss the future of of

56:06

Andra within the United Nations and not trying to attack it from outside because

56:11

again besides anra and the situation is very serious I already commented on that the other problem is that this sets an

56:18

example to get rid of the United Nations everywhere at any latitude when States

56:25

um yeah when the states are unhappy with it with the work of the United

56:30

Nations I’m sorry I think that’s all the time we have because uh our special reporter does have other commitments so

56:38

I thank you all for coming and with this the press conference is

56:43

closed okay thank you