GAZA: Su etenaren inguruan (8)

Husam Zomlot@hzomlot

Bideoa: https://x.com/i/status/1883833072027586782

oooooo

@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

Transkripzioa:

0:00

nervous

0:04

man you had some really Choice words

0:07

with uh Anthony blinkin this was right

0:10

before uh Sam husseini made his comments

0:13

that got him physically dragged out 300

0:16

reporters in Gosa were on the receiving

0:17

end of your bombs why did you keep the

0:19

bombs flowing when we had a deal in may

0:22

we all knew we had a deal everyone in

0:23

this room knows we had a deal Tony and

0:25

you kept the bombs flowing why did you

0:27

sacrifice the rules based order on the

0:30

of your commitment to Zionism why did

0:32

you allow my friends to be massacred why

0:35

did you allow my friend’s homes in Gaza

0:37

to be destroyed when we had a deal in

0:39

May you just you helped destroy our

0:41

religion Judaism by associating it with

0:43

fascism you waved the White Flag before

0:47

to take questions at the end you waved

0:48

the White Flag before Israeli fascism

0:51

have the time to take questions at the

0:52

end your father-in-law was an Israel

0:54

lobbyist your grandfather was an Israel

0:55

lobbyist are you compromised by Israel

0:58

why did you allow the Holocaust of time

1:00

to happen how does it feel to have your

1:02

legacy be genocide how does it feel to

1:05

have your legacy be genocide you too mat

1:07

you smirked through the whole thing

1:08

every day you smirk through a genocide

1:11

well maslov great job how did it feel

1:14

saying it were you scared was it is it

1:16

scary to do something like that it felt

1:18

sort of like an outof body experience

1:20

that I had envisioned for many months

1:23

over and over in my mind you know it so

1:25

it felt like a culmination or closure of

1:29

15 months in one minute it did feel

1:32

like some psychological closure for

1:35

me and it wasn’t ultimately about me or

1:40

about my feelings although it was

1:43

personal um and I’ll I’ll talk about

1:45

that later it was about people who

1:48

couldn’t be there I mean including you

1:51

um I was in The Press Room and Sam

1:54

husseini was there and everybody else

1:57

there was not going to be challenging

1:59

blinking or delivering any level of

2:01

accountability even through the

2:03

process I’d followed the process for 15

2:06

months i’ had gone and gotten

2:10

credentialed for day passes and waited

2:13

my turn to be asked to be called on they

2:15

stopped calling on me Matt Miller froze

2:18

me out boycotted me and Sam husseini

2:21

because we were like the dissenters in

2:22

the room who weren’t in the bullpen so

2:25

that was my only my only alternative was

2:28

to uh speak out of turn and asked those

2:30

questions out of turn and they were

2:32

substantive questions that no other

2:34

reporter was being a was willing to ask

2:37

him I felt like I was just doing my job

2:39

and that I also had kind of a moral

2:41

responsibility also on behalf of the

2:43

journalists who were slaughtered with us

2:46

weapons in the Gaza Strip and just so

2:49

many of them were killed at home in

2:51

targeted assassinations the state

2:53

department knew about it Tony blinkin

2:56

said that press Freedom was at the top

2:58

of his agenda and and he froze out

3:01

everyone in the state department who

3:03

tried to bring this to his attention

3:04

that Us weapons were being used to

3:06

deliberately Slaughter journalists for

3:08

simply you know killing the messenger

3:10

simply trying to show people what was

3:13

happening inside a Gaza Strip where the

3:16

international press was not allowed to

3:17

enter it was what needed to happen it

3:20

was what needed to happen for me to be

3:21

able to kind of live with myself if I

3:24

could get in there I had to I had to do

3:26

that yeah and just quick background on

3:30

what happened that day we we weren’t

3:32

sure Tony blinkin was going to deliver a

3:35

a press conference but he wanted to take

3:37

a Victory lap for the ceasefire deal or

3:40

the prisoner exchange deal and we had

3:43

been at the state department presser the

3:46

day before when Matthew Miller nicknamed

3:49

smula had delivered his final press

3:52

conference it was a really disgusting

3:54

press conference in which he was

3:56

celebrating all the destruction that

3:58

Israel exacted on countries from Lebanon

4:01

to Syria to Iran uh to the Gaza Strip

4:04

and how satisfied he was with all the

4:06

destruction and that that the ceasefire

4:08

could only be reached after Israel was

4:10

finished with its handiwork that’s

4:13

really the way he framed it and I was

4:14

tempted to challenge him but I followed

4:17

the process raised my hand and of course

4:19

he never called on me because that’s

4:20

it’s that’s what he does he controls the

4:22

entire narrative and the structure of

4:25

the briefing room to make sure that it

4:27

looks like democracy with without any

4:30

descent effectively getting through with

4:32

descent being manageable so that morning

4:35

I learned with just like about 45

4:38

minutes to to get ready um that blinking

4:41

was coming in so I just rushed out the

4:43

door violated several traffic laws and

4:47

made it in there like just at the last

4:50

minute uh just the whole time I was

4:52

thinking like I have to get there I I

4:54

know I can get in there and this is my

4:57

responsibility so I I I I feel like I

5:00

fulfilled my responsibility to to many

5:02

people and that’s satisfying and I’ve

5:04

heard from so many people including the

5:06

president of Columbia Gustavo

5:09

Petro um

5:11

parliamentarians who I guess I shouldn’t

5:13

I I mean they wrote to me privately

5:15

trouble journalists who would lose their

5:18

jobs if they had done what I did and uh

5:20

but just lots of random people um

5:23

including you know friends who I haven’t

5:24

heard from in a long time who are not

5:26

involved in political activism or media

5:29

ALS sorts of people random people Sam

5:31

husseini said when he went to the ER

5:33

after he was brutalized by cops or like

5:37

I mean they were they they physically

5:39

carried him out and he suffered an arm

5:41

injury the doctor in the ER asked like

5:44

what are you in for and he told him and

5:45

he said oh you’re that guy wow yeah so

5:48

this was It was kind of the shot her

5:50

around the world I mean I continue to

5:52

hear about it from all AC like contacts

5:55

from all across the world what did the

5:56

president of Columbia say he just said

5:59

you know congrat congratulations I’m not

6:00

outing him because on his public Twitter

6:03

account Gustavo Pro promoted it and he

6:06

also wrote me to thank me that’s great I

6:08

mean again for it’s it’s it’s satisfying

6:10

for them because they want to see

6:13

accountability and we never see

6:14

accountability yeah from our

6:16

leadership um which is why C like

6:20

Vigilantes are becoming heroes in our

6:22

society everybody knows that like the

6:25

criminal Elite Predator class just

6:28

protects itself and we seen that with

6:30

Joe Biden’s pardons on the way out were

6:33

there journalists in particular or

6:35

people in particular like you talk about

6:36

your friends who were killed were there

6:38

people in particular who you were

6:39

thinking of when you made these

6:41

statements well of

6:43

course I mean there are people that few

6:46

have heard of who aren’t like celebrity

6:48

journalists or not celebrity journalists

6:50

but like prominent influencers uh who

6:53

lost their homes you know I should have

6:55

called out the name of rat aler I mean I

6:58

hold Tony blinkin respond partly

7:00

responsible for his killing there needs

7:02

to be nurmberg

7:04

2.0 for the United States to even begin

7:08

talking about a rules-based order and

7:11

that will not happen because we have

7:13

nuclear weapons we have a storm the heg

7:15

law we don’t recognize the Rome statute

7:18

we don’t have to this is never going to

7:21

happen but there are other ways of

7:22

holding people accountable you know the

7:25

the way that the genocide went down

7:28

where we thought there was would be a

7:29

deal we thought it would come to an end

7:32

the deal was always there you know even

7:34

for some of the Israelis who were in

7:37

Gaza like the bius family the family

7:39

that had children kidnapped and taken

7:42

into Gaza they were killed most of them

7:43

were killed in an Israeli Hannibal

7:45

directive style air strike and the

7:47

father yarden bius recorded a video

7:51

obviously under duress because he was a

7:53

hostage demanding that Israel cut a

7:57

deal in December so that he could bury

8:01

his wife and children according to

8:04

custom and take them out of the Gaza

8:05

Strip and just bury them and Hamas was

8:10

eager to accommodate that the deal was

8:12

there but Tony blinkin didn’t want it

8:15

nobody wanted it in in the Biden

8:18

Administration so it’s not just uh for

8:21

particular Palestinians but the way it

8:23

went down was we would wake up every day

8:26

powerless to be able to go into the Gaza

8:28

Strip as I did before what would we be

8:31

able to do but scroll through images of

8:34

dead children often uh recorded by

8:37

journalists who would later be

8:39

killed and it just happened day after

8:43

day after day and it you know drives you

8:45

crazy so that’s how I kind of was able

8:51

to expiate my anger and my my

8:55

indignation yeah but it was also on

8:57

behalf of all of them and all their

8:59

family Ames yeah and I heard from people

9:01

in the Gaza Strip for sure including a

9:04

good friend whose home was destroyed uh

9:08

that he had spent his whole life saving

9:10

up for and building and who now lives

9:12

outside the Gaza Strip and has to uh has

9:16

you know his children waking up crying

9:17

at night asking when can we go home and

9:20

he says well we don’t have a home yeah

9:22

for sure it was personal was also

9:24

personal because uh I know people close

9:26

to Tony blinkin who are on the on the

9:30

dark side on the side of Satan they uh

9:34

you know will shake your hand and smile

9:37

in your face just like Tony blinkin has

9:40

you know tries to flash puppy dog eyes

9:42

before the media play guitar takes

9:44

members of the press out to Jose Andre’s

9:47

restaurants and tries to lull everyone

9:50

into believing that he’s a decent as as

9:53

Aaron David Miller former peace

9:55

processor and state department staffer

9:57

said Tony blink’s a decent and

9:59

compassionate man yeah he was really

10:02

upset about uh the fact that you and um

10:04

Sam husseini asked questions and what

10:07

was it like an our building Yeah in our

10:10

building you know civility should pre

10:12

Prevail right and it’s like there is no

10:15

building that is responsible for more

10:17

violence around the world except for the

10:19

Pentagon I guess Congress it’s basically

10:23

you know a no accountability zone is

10:25

what he’s saying right and the state

10:28

department

10:29

rendered itself fundamentally toxic and

10:32

discredited itself By ignoring and even

10:36

suppressing and threatening its own

10:38

experts on this

10:39

genocide I was speaking for them too and

10:41

I heard from them thanking me yeah

10:44

people who worked on Matthew Miller’s

10:46

comms team thanked me wow what did they

10:49

say just thank you for what you did I’m

10:51

not saying they’re not there now yeah um

10:54

but there you know some they one who

10:57

came out and blew the whistle was halar

10:59

who you saw in the 60 Minutes special

11:02

that was mysteriously held for eight

11:04

months yeah I wonder why it was filmed

11:07

right before the Biden Administration

11:09

put this ceasefire deal on the table and

11:13

then I mean 60 Minutes is the effect is

11:17

effectively State media yeah Scott pelly

11:20

their correspondent he I I would bet

11:23

that he’s a CIA asset all he does is

11:26

promote the CIA and so somebody came in

11:29

like it could have been Tony blinkin

11:31

himself and they said you need to hold

11:33

this because pela Harris is running for

11:36

president we can’t and we don’t want a

11:38

deal now and then after they finally get

11:40

a deal then they drop the whole thing

11:43

with Hala and Josh Paul who was on the

11:45

arms

11:46

control overseeing arms control for the

11:48

state department who blew the whistle

11:51

coming out and declaring that yes it

11:53

without us weapons we wouldn’t have seen

11:55

all of these shredded babies day after

11:57

day and we brought this to the attention

11:58

of our colleagues and our bosses and

12:01

they shut us down there’s also the pro

12:03

propa piece um by Brett Murphy he was

12:07

getting all the leaks from the state

12:09

department

12:10

insiders and it showed that not only did

12:12

were they told to be quiet but they were

12:15

the state department actually started

12:16

marking any document that made Israel

12:19

look bad as classified which meant that

12:21

you know leaking that would lead to your

12:23

prosecution and they formally threatened

12:26

anyone who thought of leaking with major

12:29

you know class a felony level

12:32

prosecutions so high level repression

12:35

took effect inside the state department

12:37

in order to protect a psychotic little

12:40

apartheid state 7,000 miles away which

12:43

Tony blinkin said he has great affinity

12:46

for yeah as a Jew he said it he said on

12:49

October 12th he went to Israel and he

12:51

said I’m here as not you know as a Jew

12:54

like what thanks thanks Tony we really

12:56

appreciate that’s really helpful in the

12:58

battle against

12:59

as a Jew let’s work together to like

13:02

sacrifice thousands of children and

13:04

that’s that’s going to be great for Jews

13:06

everywhere

Donald Trump’s plans to ‘clean out’ Gaza Strip branded ‘ethnic cleansing’ | LBC

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxOyoCz82k)

Andrew Marr is joined by Middle East analyst Chris Doyle to discuss US President Donald Trump’s suggestion that Palestinians could be removed from the Gaza Strip and housed in neighbouring Arab countries.

Listen to the full show on Global Player: https://app.af.globalplayer.com/Br0x/

Transkrpzioa:

0:02

tens of thousands of Palestinians forced

0:04

out of Gaza are slowly beginning their

0:06

journey home again carrying their

0:08

belongings on their backs as they wait

0:10

at roadblocks but meanwhile president

0:13

Trump has raised the possibility of them

0:15

not staying there in the future with

0:17

Gaza being in his words cleaned out he

0:20

wants the people there deported to

0:22

places such as Egypt and Jordan speaking

0:24

on Air Force One he said you are talking

0:26

about probably a million and a half

0:29

people and we just clean out that whole

0:31

thing you know over the centuries it’s

0:34

had many many conflicts that site and I

0:36

don’t know something has to happen he

0:39

said this could be long-term or it could

0:41

be temporary but Gaza was literally a

0:43

demolition site and Arab Nations should

0:45

build housing in a different location

0:48

for its people now his comments have

0:50

been greeted with horror by the United

0:52

Nations by Arab countries and the

0:54

Palestinian National Authority but with

0:56

delight by Israeli settlers and Hardline

0:58

politicians in t who are already

1:01

encouraging Jewish settlements inside

1:03

Gaza but wouldn’t deporting the

1:05

Palestinians from Palestine guarantee

1:08

the world another 50 years of violence

1:10

and Terror and instability let’s talk

1:13

now to Chris Doyle director of the

1:15

council for Arab British understanding

1:17

Chris thank you very much indeed for

1:19

joining me and first of all your

1:21

reaction to What president Trump has

1:22

said

1:23

today well I think if it had been

1:25

anybody else but president Trump saying

1:28

this we would have just uh totally

1:30

ignored it because in every single

1:33

respect you can imagine it’s off the

1:35

charts crazy and the way that he goes

1:37

about this he is treating Palestinians

1:40

as if they are just like cattle that

1:42

they can just be moved from one area to

1:44

the other I mean remember in Gaza the

1:46

70% of the population were already

1:49

refugees even before the this latest

1:51

chapter of the conflict erupted of

1:54

course with the Hamas attacks in October

1:56

2023 they’ve been displaced 90% % of

2:00

them during the last 15 months some of

2:03

them as much as 10 times and he sort of

2:06

flippantly comes along and says well you

2:08

know uh they can be moved to another

2:11

country to Egypt or Jordan uh Gaza could

2:14

be cleaned out that in itself is just

2:17

another way in which they’re dehumanized

2:21

I mean what we’re talking about here

2:22

because they don’t want to leave would

2:24

be ethnic cleansing it would be forcable

2:25

deportation and they’ve had a history of

2:27

that it’s not going to be accepted by

2:29

the Egyptians it won’t be accepted by

2:31

the jordanians the Palestinians or

2:33

pretty much anybody else in the region

2:35

outside of Israel uh let’s just look at

2:37

those two countries you mentioned there

2:39

just now because Egypt doesn’t want many

2:41

more people in because they see that as

2:43

a source of instability and the regime

2:45

feels awkward enough already and Jordan

2:48

in many respects is one huge refugee

2:50

camp

2:52

already it’s always been the long-term

2:54

position of the Egyptian government that

2:59

it would have to ward off it was a red

3:01

line in the words of President CeCe any

3:04

attempt to push Palestinians out of Gaza

3:07

into Egypt and it was prepared to deploy

3:11

Force into the Sinai Peninsula to

3:14

prevent this it has said very clearly

3:17

that this would jeopardize the entire

3:20

Israel Egypt peace treaty that was

3:23

basically signed by the late uh you know

3:26

broker by the late Jimmy Carter of

3:28

course that was one of the most

3:29

important peace agreements that we’ve

3:31

had in the Middle East so Egypt would

3:34

see it as undermining its security also

3:37

that like Jordan it can’t afford it uh

3:40

it’s in dire economic Straits for Jordan

3:43

it’s Fed Up the people are fed up with

3:45

being a Dumping Ground for refugees it’s

3:47

got over 610,000 Syrian refugees

3:51

according to the UN as well as millions

3:54

of Palestinian refugees already so

3:57

Jordan one of the most water scarce

3:59

countries in the world can ill afford

4:02

this but politically as was said earlier

4:05

it would upset the delicate balance

4:07

between native East bank

4:10

jordanians and those who actually are

4:13

Palestinian refugees yeah who make up

4:15

about 50% of the population so Jordan

4:18

has experienced a conflict on this basis

4:20

Back in 1970 certainly does not want to

4:24

see anymore and they’ve been very clear

4:26

that Palestine should be for the

4:28

Palestinians Jordan for jordanians so

4:31

Donald Trump I think is a wing on a

4:33

Prayer on all of this he does sound like

4:35

a nonstarter but let me ask you about

4:37

the politics of the other side of this

4:39

which is that it’s been welcomed

4:40

immediately um by the right as it were

4:43

the religious right particularly in Tel

4:45

and in Israel more generally we’ve seen

4:48

um calls for Palestinians to start to

4:50

settle North Gaza and of course the

4:53

constant pressure going on on the West

4:55

Bank what do you think the impact of

4:57

what president Trump has said is going

4:58

to be on the Israeli right as it were

5:02

it’s going to further excite them

5:04

they’ve

5:05

already got the sense that Donald Trump

5:08

is going to allow them to do so much of

5:10

what they’ve dreamed for them Gaza isn’t

5:13

the epicenter of this conflict it is the

5:15

West Bank for them that is part of

5:17

biblical Israel Judea and Samaria and

5:19

they can see that he’s going to allow

5:22

them to Annex that area to expand these

5:24

illegal settlements so they really do

5:27

that they have this historic opportunity

5:29

so the Israeli right has always believed

5:32

that a solution to Gaza was to dump it

5:34

onto Egypt and that the Palestinian

5:37

State should not be in the West Bank but

5:39

it should be in Jordan that you make

5:41

Jordan the Palestinian State this has

5:43

been their long-term dream and it’s only

5:46

been in recent years that it’s moved

5:48

from the very very periphery of Israeli

5:51

politics to being actually far more in

5:53

the center where there is a larger

5:54

percentage of Israelis who will buy into

5:57

this but I would have to say that most

5:59

Israelis would not they know that that

6:01

is this is not viable it’s just that

6:04

these extremists are now actually within

6:06

the Israeli government they are

6:08

ministers so it’s become more of a

6:10

realistic prospect that they’re going to

6:12

support this and back it and encourage

6:14

Trump to do this and our understanding

6:16

is that Trump had this suggested to him

6:19

by Israeli leaders this wasn’t just done

6:22

out of the blue that that is absolutely

6:24

fascinating so a really really good

6:26

analysis thank you so much for joining

6:28

LBC

oooooo

From the Holocaust to Gaza: Dr. Gabor Maté on the Impact of Trauma | Amanpour and Company

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlf3pxwInSk)

For Palestinians returning to their homes in Northern Gaza, and for families in Israel reuniting with their loved ones, conversation now begins to turn to rebuilding, processing, and healing. Renowned physician, author and self-help guru Dr. Gabor Maté, a Holocaust survivor, has an intimate understanding of the process. He joins Michel Martin to discuss how his own life experience has informed his perspective on trauma in Israel and the Palestinian territories.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

well for those Palestinians returning to

0:02

their homes in Northern Gaza and the

0:04

families in Israel reuniting with their

0:06

loved ones conversation now begins to

0:08

turn to rebuilding processing and yes

0:11

eventually healing it’s something that

0:13

our next guest has an intimate

0:15

understanding of as a survivor of the

0:17

Holocaust renowned physician author and

0:19

self-help Guru Dr Gabor mate joined

0:22

Michelle Martin to discuss his own

0:24

experiences and how they’ve informed his

0:26

perspective on trauma in Israel and the

0:29

Palestinian territory stories thanks

0:31

bana Dr gab mate thank you so much for

0:33

speaking with us thanks for having me

0:35

you are renowned for your work as a

0:38

physician an author a speaker um many

0:42

people know your work especially your

0:44

work about trauma and the way that

0:46

trauma can have generational impacts but

0:49

for people who are not familiar with

0:51

your work would you mind describing how

0:53

your family’s experience with the

0:55

Holocaust informs this work well I was

0:57

born a Jewish infant uh two months for

1:00

the Nazis occupied my home country

1:02

Hungary my grandparents died in aritz

1:04

when I was 5 months of age my mother and

1:08

I came very close to being deported

1:09

there ourselves my father was away for

1:12

the first year and a half of my life he

1:13

forc labor I was heavily impacted by the

1:16

bombing of the war and of course by the

1:19

terror inflicted on the Jewish people in

1:21

my homeland and uh that has had lifelong

1:24

effects on my fun mental functioning

1:26

emotional

1:28

functioning I feel about my myself I’ve

1:30

had to do a lot of healing to overcome

1:33

many of the impacts of that trauma how

1:36

did you come to know this about yourself

1:39

because I think some people think that

1:41

experiences that infants have you know

1:44

you’re preverbal at that time and so you

1:48

wouldn’t have the ability to sort of

1:49

articulate those memories how did you

1:51

come to know that those early

1:54

experiences had such a deep impact on

1:55

your life well I came to know first of

1:57

all by having to deal with my own issues

1:59

with my difficulty paying attention my

2:02

ADHD Tendencies my depression my um self

2:07

dislike despite all the success that I

2:09

had in the world and then of course as a

2:12

physician and a researcher and and and

2:14

the reader of the research I found out

2:17

about how early experiences preverbal

2:19

experiences even inut and experiences

2:22

shaped the human brain and the human

2:24

personality and uh it was not difficult

2:27

to draw the links between my early

2:29

experiences and my later challenges

2:31

given what scien has told us about the

2:34

impact of experiences and uh the more

2:38

preverbal it is the deeper it is

2:40

actually one of the other things about

2:42

your work that strikes us is that it’s

2:45

you describe the impact of trauma on a

2:47

cellular level on an individual level

2:50

but you also describe it as having

2:53

social impact that there can be traumas

2:55

that penetrate a society deeply and

2:58

that’s one of the reasons we called you

2:59

because we are in the throws of a moment

3:03

of sort of profound International Trauma

3:05

yes let’s just start with what happened

3:07

in Israel we are more than a year past

3:10

the Hamas attack on on Southern Israel

3:12

what impact do you think it has both on

3:15

the people who directly experienced it

3:16

and on the society at large and then of

3:18

course I’m going to then ask you about

3:21

Gaza because as we’re speaking

3:23

now it’s estimated that nearly 50,000

3:26

people have been killed so far and the

3:28

number may be greater than dad well

3:31

let’s face it on October 7th uh over

3:33

12200 people were killed and that came

3:36

up as a huge shock to Israelis and many

3:38

of them experienced it as very traumatic

3:40

as they were expecting to and that’s

3:42

natural and understandable and one can

3:45

only feel with them um for the shock and

3:48

the trauma that they experienced all the

3:51

more so since they grew up in Israel and

3:54

I’m speaking as a former Zionist I’m

3:56

speaking as a Jew I’m speaking as

3:58

somebody who’s been to his who’s been to

4:00

the occupied territor been to Gaza been

4:02

to the West Bank um has worked with

4:05

Israeli psychologists and therapists and

4:07

Palestinian therapists and psychologists

4:10

the Israeli mentality has always been

4:12

that we’re under attack we’re under

4:13

threat they’re all against us and so

4:15

octob 7th was simply more

4:17

confirmation of what they had already

4:21

believed the problem from my point of

4:23

view is and from anybody’s point of view

4:25

who looks at it objectively history did

4:27

not begin on October the 7th there’s a

4:29

conflict that’s been going on

4:32

for at least 1947 48 but if you look at

4:35

it historically it’s been going on for

4:37

150 years and so that that terrible

4:40

event of October the 7th was one more

4:44

manifestation of a intractable and

4:49

generally

4:50

destructive

4:53

traumatic

4:56

conflict that has beset that area the

4:58

world for a long time

5:00

so as much as we have to recognize the

5:02

shock and Trauma of October the 7th we

5:04

cannot separate it from the history that

5:07

preceded it you know obviously Israelis

5:09

often feel that they are singled out

5:12

for uh sort of a moral scrutiny that is

5:16

not directed at others but having said

5:19

that I’m just wondering if you think

5:22

overall does that experience of

5:25

inherited trauma and experien Trauma in

5:28

real time it it you think it’s

5:30

influencing the way Israeli leadership

5:32

and Israeli Society is responding to

5:35

what happened it’s interesting that one

5:38

more time we begin with the experience

5:41

and subject the response of

5:43

Israelis whereas if you look at

5:46

historically by

5:48

vast Gap the greatest trauma has been

5:52

inflicted on the Palestinians for

5:54

decades both say more about that then

5:57

say more about what you mean by that um

6:01

well um in just 1947

6:06

48 there were tens of thousands of

6:09

Palestinians massacred by the Israelis

6:11

and in the Lebanese War um 20,000

6:14

civilians were killed by the Israelis in

6:17

Lebanon

6:18

civilians in I can name you multiple

6:21

massacres of

6:23

Palestinians documented by Israeli

6:26

historians I’m not repeating Arab

6:28

propaganda here I’m telling you what

6:30

Israeli historians have Unearthed and

6:32

documented and proven without a shadow

6:34

of the doubt and in the west we T not to

6:37

talk about that we tend to talk about

6:40

Israelis purely as victims now surely

6:43

Israelis have been victimized they’ve

6:45

been some terrible terrorism that

6:47

they’ve suffered nobody’s questioning

6:49

that and nobody’s justifying it either

6:52

but it happened in the context so when

6:55

Israel is believe that their single

6:57

thought for criticism

6:59

they’re not single out for nearly the

7:01

criticism that the Palestinian side has

7:03

received over the decades despite the

7:06

fact that the Palestinians have suffered

7:07

a lot more and I hate to compare

7:09

suffering but in terms of numbers and in

7:12

terms of power loss of lands oppression

7:17

discrimination there’s no comparison in

7:20

actual practice and anybody who goes

7:22

there like I have and you see it with

7:25

your own eyes you can’t help but come to

7:27

that conclusion now what’s also true

7:31

that given Jewish history given the

7:34

historical and um unspeakable suffering

7:37

of the Jewish people not just of course

7:40

primarily but not only during the Nazi

7:42

Genocide but for hundreds of years

7:44

before then and decades before that it’s

7:47

kind of natural for many Jews to

7:49

perceive themselves those as being under

7:52

attack and so that the Palestinian

7:54

Israeli conflict is viewed by them from

7:57

that lens of historical

8:01

persecution I can understand why that

8:03

should be the case but it doesn’t make

8:05

it accurate because it removes from the

8:09

equation the Palestinian experience that

8:12

we can that that we tend not to look at

8:15

let’s proceed there because you know

8:18

obviously look as a journalist I have my

8:20

own lens here and one of the lenses

8:22

through which I’m looking at this is the

8:23

fact that independent journalists have

8:25

not been permitted to go to Gaza during

8:27

this conflict but we have been able to

8:29

see that there has been vast destruction

8:31

and we know according to the health

8:33

authorities there that there has been

8:35

tremendous death and suffering and in

8:37

some parts of the country people are on

8:39

the verge of starvation if they are not

8:41

starving already I mean this has been

8:42

documented by International agencies

8:44

that have had access to that area so if

8:47

you could just describe that like what

8:49

impact do you think this experience I’m

8:52

recognizing what you said that this is a

8:53

moment in time but just this moment in

8:55

time for the people who are living

8:57

through that in the Drone well

8:59

psychiatry in 2006 there was a study of

9:02

Palestinian kids this is before hamus

9:04

came to power so let’s not begin the

9:08

assumption that it all started when

9:11

Hamas took power this study was done

9:13

before Hamas took power in Gaza and 90

9:18

97% of pales of Gaz and children showed

9:21

signs of post-traumatic stress we’re

9:23

talking 20 years ago now and many of

9:28

them met their beds

9:30

I wet my bed till I was 13 years of age

9:32

as a result of my experience as a Jewish

9:35

infant in the second war under the

9:39

Nazis large percentage of palestin inid

9:41

were wedding their beds over 20 years

9:43

ago they had symptoms of nightmares

9:46

exhibited symptoms of aggression towards

9:49

their parents um there was a study of

9:52

Palestinian kids just in December of

9:55

this last year 96% of them thought that

9:59

death was imminent um they s 79%

10:03

suffered from

10:04

nightmares 73% exhibited symptoms of

10:07

aggression in other words what was

10:10

observed in this journal of world

10:11

Psychiatry over 20 years ago has now

10:13

become that much more exasperated

10:16

exacerbated that’s the

10:18

reality

10:21

and what to say how can

10:26

I given what I’ve experienced as a

10:28

Jewish infant that there a Jewish kid

10:30

growing up under antisemitism in in

10:32

Hungary before we came to Canada how can

10:35

I not feel with these kids having seen

10:37

what they’ve been through having been

10:38

there having seen how they lived even

10:41

before this current

10:42

conflict so it’s a horrendous

10:45

situation and we can’t just restrict our

10:48

empathy to one side and we also have to

10:51

look at the power

10:53

relationships I mean one side has been

10:55

inflicting it on the other uh with great

11:00

preponderance and if you go to the West

11:02

Bank as I was there two and a half years

11:05

ago working with Palestinian women who

11:08

had been tortured in Israeli

11:11

jails what you hear all the time is that

11:14

there’s no postraumatic stress disorder

11:16

here because the traa is never posted

11:19

it’s

11:21

ongoing and so horand this is October

11:24

the 7th was if we’re going to deal with

11:26

this in a humane way in a human way in a

11:29

scientific way we have to look at the

11:31

overall

11:32

context and um extend at least as much

11:36

empathy to one side as to the other so

11:40

what is the way forward here when you

11:42

have people who I mean because there’s

11:45

the there’s the human suffering and then

11:48

there’s the politics of the moment yeah

11:51

and the politics of the moment often

11:54

either they shape human suffering and

11:56

they sometimes obliterate or obscure

11:59

human suffering right so what’s the way

12:01

forward here first of all we have to

12:04

acknowledge the suffering on all sides

12:06

and the trauma on all

12:08

sides the historical trauma that was the

12:12

impetus for the Zionist project and the

12:16

historical trauma that the zus project

12:19

has inflicted on the Palestinian people

12:23

and continues

12:25

to

12:27

um we have to pay more attention I

12:30

believe to those Israelis the small

12:34

minority in any country at any time I

12:37

there’s something very beautiful about

12:38

Jewish tradition and one of the most

12:41

beautiful things about Jewish tradition

12:42

is the prophetic tradition and the

12:45

prophets weren’t people that count out

12:47

to public opinion and they didn’t count

12:50

out to the leaders they said there’s a

12:52

high value there’s a higher good there’s

12:55

a higher God there’s a higher truth than

12:58

nationalism than cism than deference to

13:01

Authority and it’s to that higher truth

13:04

that we pay attention to and there are

13:07

people in Israel now who Advocate that

13:10

but we never hear we rarely hear their

13:12

voices here in the west so they need to

13:14

be pay more detention to I think the

13:17

unconditional

13:19

support for the

13:21

continued suppression of the

13:24

Palestinians the attack on villages in

13:27

the West Bank that’s going on

13:30

currently even after the ceas fire in

13:32

Gaza they largely unquestioned

13:35

acceptance of the Israeli

13:37

perspective needs to be

13:39

challenged I think the Palestinians also

13:42

have to deal with the fact that they’ve

13:43

done some horrible things or some

13:46

horrible things have been done in their

13:47

name they need to deal with that need to

13:50

take responsibility for it I think what

13:52

I’d like to see is what I like to see in

13:54

general in human life is that people

13:56

take responsibility for their own

13:58

actions and not just see themselves all

14:00

the time as victims of the other but to

14:02

recognize what they’ve done to the other

14:04

themselves your latest book is the myth

14:06

of normal trauma illness and healing and

14:09

a toxic culture I wrote that with my son

14:11

Daniel yes what should we draw from this

14:13

in the current moment well what I was

14:15

pointing out in that book is the

14:17

inseparability of the Mind from the body

14:21

the unity of Mind and Body in human

14:23

health and illness which also means the

14:26

inseparability of the individual from

14:27

the environment because our minds and

14:30

emotions are shaped by our relationships

14:32

so that you can’t separate the

14:34

individual from the culture from the

14:37

society from the community from the

14:39

history

14:42

multigeneration so that all kinds of

14:45

conditions that are thought to be

14:47

discrete

14:48

illnesses and show up as forms of

14:51

disease are actually relatable to

14:54

people’s experience in life and to the

14:58

culture in which they live which also

15:01

means that

15:02

culture needs to heal as much as

15:04

individuals need to heal and uh in the

15:07

book we point out the ways in which

15:09

trauma shows up in people’s lives

15:12

personalized Health mental health

15:15

physical health addictions other

15:18

afflictions also in social and political

15:20

life may also Point towards some

15:23

Pathways towards healing um so on the

15:26

whole the book has a positive message

15:30

but it does have to begin with looking

15:32

at how things are very

15:34

objectively and not separate phenomena

15:38

that can’t be separated not separate the

15:41

Mind from the body not separate the

15:43

emotions from the physiology not

15:45

separate the individual from the

15:47

environment not separate the environment

15:49

from the

15:51

culture and not separate the culture

15:54

from the whole Universal world that we

15:56

all share but this is where I keep going

15:59

back to the experience of the Holocaust

16:04

and and also the experiences that

16:07

Palestinians have had now for for a lot

16:09

of people you know their culture is a

16:12

source of strength yes and if these

16:14

historical it’s a source of strength

16:16

it’s a source of identity it’s a source

16:17

of belonging I think that’s one reason

16:19

why people you know call people like you

16:22

a traitor because they say well how how

16:24

do you dis disengage from this history

16:27

that we share how do you extra one from

16:29

the other well I think you just touched

16:31

upon the key question in this whole

16:33

conversation the thing to realize is

16:36

trauma is not what happened to

16:38

us trauma is what happens inside us as a

16:42

result of what happened to us so the

16:45

trauma let’s say look back go back to

16:47

the trauma of me being given by my

16:51

mother to a stranger in the street which

16:53

was what happened and I didn’t see her

16:55

for six weeks and my life was saved

16:57

thanks to this Christian woman

17:00

who conveyed me to some safety and I

17:02

didn’t see my mother for six weeks but

17:04

that wasn’t a trauma that was the

17:06

traumatic

17:08

event the trauma was the belief that I

17:11

developed that I wasn’t lovable because

17:13

who gets given away somebody was not

17:16

lovable the trauma wasn’t that I didn’t

17:18

see my mother all those

17:21

weeks the trauma

17:24

was that I began to believe in a world

17:27

that’s not safe and uh in which I don’t

17:30

[Music]

17:32

belong so those traumatic wound and

17:35

Trauma literally means wound so trauma

17:38

is a wound it’s not the wounding event

17:40

it’s the wound

17:42

itself and if we carry a wound in the

17:45

present from something that happened in

17:47

the past we don’t have to heal the past

17:51

we have to heal the wound in the

17:53

present and I can heal the wound of

17:56

believing that I’m not lovable I I can

17:59

heal the wound that I believe that I

18:01

live in a world that doesn’t accept me

18:04

or doesn’t love or in which I can’t find

18:06

safety I can heal those wounds so the

18:10

thing about healing trauma is not to

18:12

keep looking at the past and not to be

18:14

identified that by the past but to ask

18:17

ourselves who are we at this present

18:21

moment as human

18:23

beings so that the past doesn’t Define

18:26

us it informs us it explains a lot of

18:30

things about us but we’re not our past

18:33

Dr thank you so much for speaking with

18:36

us thanks for having me it’s a pleasure

18:38

to speak with you as well

18:43

[Music]

18:50

[Music]

oooooo

ooo

Is Israel targeting children in Gaza? Fatima Bhutto & Victoria Rose | Reframe

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Ys45KSHBE)

Victoria Rose is a British senior plastic and reconstructive surgeon who has been on two medical missions to Gaza since October 7, 2023.

In this interview of Al Jazeera’s new series Reframe, author and journalist Fatima Bhutto speaks to Victoria Rose about the devastating effect of the war on the healthcare system in Gaza, including severe lack of food, specialist doctors, medical supplies and difficulties in access for international aid groups.

During her time in Gaza, Victoria Rose worked around the clock and close to 90% of her cases were children. She tells us about the extreme injuries she saw and the psychological effects of the war.

Recorded November 2024.

Transkripzioa:

0:00

the children seem to be specifically hit

0:02

by quadcopters which are drones that

0:05

have fire power

0:08

capability and lots of them were sort of

0:11

shot in the back in the head uh in in

0:15

the upper torso these are in the

0:18

intentional targeting of children and

0:20

they’re quadcopters so they’re following

0:22

so they’re operated by somebody that’s

0:24

watching what they’re doing so I assume

0:28

that they are

0:31

[Music]

0:36

welcome to reframe where we seek new

0:38

conversations and perspectives I’m faao

0:42

and in this series we’ll be discussing

0:43

one of the biggest stories of our time

0:46

the war in Gaza and how International

0:48

doctors are responding to

0:51

it my guest this week is British plastic

0:54

and reconstructive surgeon Dr Victoria

0:57

Rose Dr Rose has had first hand

1:00

experience observing the destruction of

1:02

the Health Care system by Israeli forces

1:05

and especially its devastating impact on

1:13

children thank you so much for joining

1:15

us today Victoria your work is beyond

1:18

admirable and watching you speak and

1:22

seeing what you’ve done is really so

1:24

moving you are a British NHS doctor but

1:28

you have no family ties to Gaza you

1:31

didn’t grow up there you don’t really

1:32

have any direct

1:33

connections what was it that made you

1:36

pack your bags and go out there I first

1:40

went to Gaza in

1:43

201 19 I think or could be 18 and I was

1:49

shamed into going by my colleagues I

1:53

worked at uh King’s college major trauma

1:56

center and two of my colleagues were

2:00

very influential in a charity called

2:02

ideals they were both orthopedic

2:04

surgeons and ideals is a charity that

2:07

offers sort of um Aid and support sort

2:10

of international disasters and War zones

2:13

and they had picked uh Gaza in 2009 and

2:18

had done some trauma courses there

2:20

initially I didn’t get involved as time

2:23

went on I could see what they were doing

2:26

and I went and I did two missions

2:30

and as soon as I got there I realized

2:33

that the problem was that there are no

2:34

plastic surgeons in Gaza or no trained

2:38

plastic surgeons in Gaza so there are

2:40

general surgeons that have developed

2:42

some plastic surgery skills so there’s a

2:44

very good burn surgeon but he trained

2:47

through general

2:48

surgery um but there’s nobody that could

2:50

do any plastic surgery problem and I

2:53

started in 2019 looking for somebody

2:56

that we could train ahed m

3:00

who is a a plastic surgeon from Gaza and

3:04

he said I I want to learn how to do

3:06

trauma and he worked with me for two

3:10

years he did the first cleft lip and

3:12

pallet repair by a Garen surgeon uh he

3:16

did a breast reconstruction case and so

3:19

every sort of month or every other week

3:21

I was getting these photos of the

3:23

amazing stuff that he was doing and I

3:24

was just so proud of him and then in

3:28

October

3:30

the pictures changed and he was sending

3:34

me very different footage and he sent me

3:37

a picture I remember this very well on

3:39

the 31st of

3:41

October and it was a 7y old and he said

3:45

I don’t know what to do I think I’m

3:46

going to have to amputate what do you

3:48

all think I should do and at that point

3:50

I sort of said I think we need to go and

3:52

help him and the first time you went

3:55

because you went twice since October the

3:57

7th the first time you were Gaza what

4:01

was your role what were you doing on a

4:02

daily basis in the hospitals we’d been

4:06

given emergency medical team status by

4:09

the Ministry of Health for the missions

4:12

and we put a plan together to say that

4:15

our aim would be to work with our

4:18

colleagues in uh Gaza and to take as

4:22

much medical equipment with us as we

4:23

could so that’s all I that was my agenda

4:26

but I operated 24/7 can you 2 and weeks

4:30

can you describe what the atmosphere of

4:33

working under those conditions under

4:35

under siege under attack what what that

4:38

was like I don’t think I really thought

4:41

very much about where I was and what was

4:44

happening outside the hospital walls

4:46

because there was just so much to do it

4:49

was just

4:50

Relentless um you know constant people

4:54

to see constant wounds that needed de

4:57

briding you never got on top of it every

5:00

time I finished a case somebody would

5:02

show me something else and it was it

5:06

just all absorbing and all you kept

5:07

thinking is right I’ve got to do this

5:09

and then we’re going to do that and then

5:10

this chap needs to come back to theater

5:13

and it just kept going and kept going

5:15

and you just didn’t really stop and

5:18

you’ve said Victoria that close to 90%

5:21

of those you operated on in Gaza were

5:23

children UNICEF has called Gaza the

5:26

world’s most dangerous place to be a

5:28

child

5:30

from what you

5:31

saw why would UNICEF say

5:35

that I think that as time went on we saw

5:39

more and more children and certainly

5:42

when I went back in the

5:45

August we were at Nasa for a month and I

5:50

operated again every day and most of my

5:55

lists were just children it what what

5:58

what was it burns was it

6:00

it’s it’s in a explosion when a blast

6:04

goes off everything around you gets

6:06

weaponized so all the masonry and bits

6:08

of car sort of get whipped up in that

6:10

energy and then

6:12

they hit a civilian at quite a high

6:16

velocity and that will penetrate the

6:19

skin and it will either break the bone

6:21

underneath or it will penetrate the

6:24

chest or the abdomen and that was the

6:27

bulk of what we were seeing but we also

6:29

saw a lot of burns because of the heat

6:32

of the blast and then we saw bullet

6:35

injuries so we saw a lot of sniper

6:38

injuries but the children seem to be

6:40

specifically hit by quadcopters which

6:43

are drones that have Firepower

6:47

capability and lots of them were sort of

6:50

shot in the back in the heads uh in in

6:55

the upper torso these are in the

6:57

intentional targeting of children I mean

6:59

if it’s the head and torso and back and

7:02

they’re quadcopters so they’re following

7:04

so they’re they’re operated by somebody

7:06

that’s watching what they’re doing so I

7:09

assume that they are targeting children

7:12

what we saw was that the bulk of the

7:15

children were between the age of five

7:19

and probably 15 and when we were with

7:22

msf the theory was that all of the

7:24

children under five were of an age where

7:27

their parents would pick them up and run

7:29

with them and obviously anyone 15 and

7:33

older is quite agile on their feet and

7:35

can run away but that tranch of children

7:38

between five and 15 are often sort of

7:41

you know confused by what’s going on and

7:43

not the quickest to get up and so that

7:46

was I think why we saw so many injuries

7:49

in that age group and the the trauma

7:52

that these children must face it’s it’s

7:55

been said of Gaza that there’s no

7:58

post-traumatic stress disorder because

8:00

there’s no post did you experience this

8:03

were you able to to spend time in some

8:05

cases with these children they

8:07

definitely were children that have huge

8:11

psychological issues we had a a

8:13

seven-year-old called Muhammad who had

8:16

been in a blast injury that had bought

8:19

the house down that he was in and he was

8:22

with his father and in the blast his

8:27

father had died and his mother SP spoke

8:29

beautiful English and she said to me he

8:32

just won’t speak to me he won’t look at

8:35

you he doesn’t want to engage with any

8:37

of the doctors he just wants to see his

8:40

father it was quite a difficult problem

8:43

because I was watching him not recover

8:46

from an injury that he should recover

8:48

from in that we had we had amputated his

8:51

leg and we had closed it and we grafted

8:53

it and we had closed all the wounds on

8:56

his other leg but he just the wounds

8:59

just didn’t heal he wasn’t eating he

9:02

kept getting infections he just wasn’t

9:05

progressing and that totally is due to

9:08

his mental state and and we know of

9:10

course now that Gaza has the largest

9:12

cohort of child

9:14

amputees in the

9:16

world you said that that doctors in Gaza

9:20

are are journalists now I mean they’re

9:22

killing the journalists and so it’s

9:25

doctors like yourself who are telling us

9:27

what’s happened but of course we know

9:29

that over a thousand healthcare workers

9:32

have also been killed by Israel doctors

9:35

paramedics healthcare workers have also

9:37

been abducted um detained

9:41

tortured were there doctors who you

9:44

spent time with in Gaza who who moved

9:47

you particularly who who you will always

9:48

keep with you lots lots and lots I when

9:53

I was at Nasa in August I worked with an

9:56

anst who told me that he

9:59

had been taken from shifa and held in an

10:04

Israeli prison for 43 days where his

10:08

hands were tied behind his back and he

10:09

was

10:10

blindfolded he lost 10 kilos in weight

10:14

and he said he was beaten every day and

10:17

then and then released and I remember

10:20

looking at him and thinking I can’t

10:22

believe that you’re back at Nasa

10:25

working uh and I think there is this

10:28

massive feeling of responsibility of the

10:32

health care teams in Gaza to continue

10:35

coming to work in some you know terrible

10:38

circumstances fatty who was one of my

10:41

theater nurses had come back after 6

10:44

weeks off and his 10-year-old son had

10:47

been killed in a blast and one of my

10:50

other colleagues showed me footage of

10:52

fatty running to pick his son up dead

10:55

off the floor and carrying him out of

10:58

the sort of area he had three children

11:01

two girls and and a 10-year-old boy and

11:03

you just what what do I say to him when

11:06

he comes back to work it’s you know it’s

11:10

but then everybody that you speak to has

11:12

lost a sibling a mother a father I mean

11:16

obviously the ones that have lost

11:17

children you you feel more for because

11:20

you don’t expect to lose your children

11:22

but I I don’t think I met anyone that

11:24

was unscathed by by this and in the time

11:27

that you were there um in these

11:29

hospitals were there were there Quiet

11:32

Moments was there light moments between

11:34

the doctors yes yeah there were I mean I

11:37

think medicine is is like that you have

11:39

to sort of make the best of of of what

11:42

you have and we certainly had a lot of

11:44

interesting sort of scrap heat challenge

11:46

moments when we ran out of stuff that we

11:49

had to improvise for and obviously

11:52

you’re all in the same situation

11:53

together um and they are so grateful

11:58

that you’ve come to help them that there

12:00

is this sort of you know lovely bond

12:03

between you so there’s a lot of

12:05

camaraderie you said that you went twice

12:08

and and the first time your your mandate

12:10

was to bring as many supplies in yeah

12:12

the second time you went back to Gaza

12:14

did you have a different experience well

12:17

the first time we went in we traveled

12:20

via Cairo through the saai desert and

12:22

crossed at Rafa and we were in the UN

12:25

Convoy and there was no restriction

12:27

really on what you could take you could

12:29

take whatever you could get into your

12:31

minibus so we managed to take 25

12:35

suitcases with us in the March full of

12:37

medical equipment and obviously we had

12:40

colleagues inside who told us what they

12:42

were short of so it was it was almost

12:46

you know a perfect sort scenario for us

12:49

in that we turned up with everything

12:50

that they needed and extra hands in

12:53

August we traveled through Israel and we

12:57

crossed at Karam shalom which is

12:59

controlled by Kat who are the uh

13:03

commission for um activities in the

13:06

territor so so basically Israel and they

13:10

had

13:11

restricted lots of things including the

13:14

number of people that could enter so in

13:18

March we were in a convoy of 19 Vans

13:22

with major Nos and minor Charities there

13:25

were so many doctors and nurses in

13:28

August greme and I were the only two

13:29

surgeons on the coach there were only 20

13:32

seats on the coach only five of them

13:34

went to emergency medical teams all of

13:37

us could only take one bag in and it had

13:39

to weigh 23 kilos and we were told that

13:42

we had to take our own food for a month

13:45

in your bag yes plus your supplies and

13:47

did you have to bring your own water as

13:49

well you had to take your own water for

13:50

3 days that was that was the advice so

13:53

what medical equipment could you take

13:55

Well I packed a very small kit I I think

13:58

from the Arch trip I knew the surgery I

14:00

needed to do I had a friend who had left

14:03

NASA who told me that you know what kit

14:06

they didn’t have my theater sister at

14:08

Thomas’s packed me a very small set of

14:12

instruments um and I went in with a few

14:14

disposable bits and pieces and and yeah

14:17

we we got

14:18

by um we’re going to turn to the

14:20

audience in a second but I just want to

14:22

ask would you go back yes

14:27

I I think when you

14:29

go and you know that you’re making a

14:32

difference it’s very hard not to go back

14:35

and the only thing that stops me going

14:36

back is my family and

14:40

particularly my other half philli and I

14:42

know how difficult it is for Phillip

14:44

when I go and that’s the only reason

14:47

that I’m I’m ever reticent about going

14:50

back is I need to make sure that he’s

14:52

comfortable if I can sort of get him

14:54

round we we are looking at going back in

14:57

February um if you’ve got a question for

15:00

Victoria please put your hand up we’ve

15:02

got one over there I am constantly

15:05

shocked about how people in the UK and

15:08

just the West in general are not

15:10

unanimously outraged about what’s going

15:13

on and so I was wondering what would you

15:16

like to see journalists do to combat

15:19

what you say the unengaged population

15:23

how do we how do we make them see um and

15:26

how do we make them care I’m not not

15:29

100% convinced that they’re unengaged

15:32

and they don’t

15:34

care more and more I think that the

15:37

government doesn’t speak for the

15:38

majority of the

15:41

population everybody I know feels the

15:44

same as I do including my Jewish friends

15:47

so I don’t know where this is coming

15:51

from that nobody you know G gives a damn

15:54

about Palestine and what’s happening in

15:56

Gaza I I think that is coming at a

15:59

higher level a and I I think we need to

16:03

continue demonstrating and making it

16:06

known that we’re not supporting what the

16:09

government are doing with regard to this

16:12

war um I’ll just take the lady in the

16:15

back do you think there’s a real

16:18

disconnect between what’s happening on

16:20

the ground and what we’re seeing here

16:22

and how does that make you feel if you

16:24

do think that exists in in the media and

16:27

general y I do think there’s a real

16:30

disconnect I don’t think that we are

16:34

seeing exactly what’s going on over

16:37

there I think a lot of a lot of the

16:39

younger generation think that it’s fine

16:41

that you’re getting the feed that you

16:44

need from the Palestinians who are

16:46

putting it on um Instagram and Tik Tok

16:51

but those platforms are not designed to

16:54

deliver news they’re designed to keep

16:57

you on them to to sell products and

17:00

adverts so your feed may contain some

17:03

footage from Palestinians but that’s not

17:07

the majority of feed lots of other

17:08

people are still getting memes of

17:10

kittens and puppies so you can’t

17:13

consider that to be a a news outlet for

17:15

the masses and that’s what I’ve noticed

17:18

it’s the same people that are

17:19

approaching me to to talk to University

17:22

students to you know to to talk to Al

17:25

jazer and there’s a tranch that is just

17:27

isn’t interested in what’s happening and

17:30

it’s those people that I think we need

17:32

to engage because I think if they could

17:35

see what was going on they would change

17:39

their opinions of the situation we’ve

17:41

got a question over here I work for

17:44

warch child and we provide trauma

17:46

counseling and Child Protection Services

17:47

in Gaza and what’s changed more recently

17:50

for us is our teams now say that they

17:52

see signs of acute and complex trauma on

17:55

every child that they see that they meet

17:57

and encounter the humanitarian

17:59

communities never had to respond to a

18:00

cute trauma at a population level before

18:03

so what do you feel would be needed um

18:06

from the International Community to

18:08

respond to the longterm mental health

18:09

impacts in I think we are going to have

18:12

to look very hard at mental health

18:14

support I don’t know how many of the NGS

18:17

prioritize mental health in their

18:19

Medical Teams now um but it’s it’s going

18:23

to be needed once we can get back in is

18:26

it even manageable to do that at a a

18:29

population level I think it is

18:32

manageable Katherine who worked with us

18:34

who was from Norway was seeing every

18:37

child that we operated on and she had a

18:39

team of local

18:42

Palestinian um

18:44

psychotherapists what you you need to

18:46

remember is everybody thinks that Gaza

18:48

was this sort of you know hole of a

18:51

place where it was all full of refugees

18:53

that barely spoke English it’s not and

18:55

it’s never been like that they’re hugely

18:56

well

18:57

educated all of the women have

19:00

professions there’s lots of

19:03

physiotherapists that were Palestinian

19:05

loads of Occupational therapists lots of

19:07

psychotherapists and they had all come

19:09

back to work and were working so they

19:12

have a huge number of their own teams

19:15

that will continue um and they you know

19:17

they’ve even restarted training their

19:19

medical students so when we went in

19:21

March the medical students had obviously

19:23

been the medical schools had been

19:25

destroyed in the first wave uh but in

19:28

September they reopened and they they

19:30

continued to do their medical school

19:32

exams and three of our students are

19:35

sitting their final exams now

19:38

extraordinary um we’ve got a question

19:41

over

19:42

here so after um the missions in Gaza

19:48

how did it affect your life after when

19:49

you came back to the UK a lot of people

19:52

said did I suffer sort of posttraumatic

19:55

stress or you know how was it with what

19:58

I’ve seen SE I have to remember that

20:01

every day when I go to work at Kings I

20:04

see you know small children that have

20:06

run out in front of a car whose lives

20:08

are going to change IR you know

20:11

indefinitely for them and their family

20:13

and I also in the rest of my time you

20:16

know tell people on a you know a fairly

20:19

or see people on a fairly regular basis

20:20

who who are going to die from cancer so

20:23

I I’ve always had this as part of my

20:25

life but the thing that I find really

20:29

hard to get over is I can never stop

20:34

cancer and I can never stop

20:36

four-year-olds running in front of cars

20:38

on Brixton high road but if we had a

20:42

ceasefire tomorrow I possibly wouldn’t

20:45

have to see another burnt seven-year-old

20:48

in

20:49

Gaza and that’s really hard to to

20:53

rationalize I can take one more question

20:55

if someone’s going to be very precise

20:58

yeah I I’m Lucy I’m from the UK um I’m a

21:00

journalism student now and I used to

21:02

work for a Palestinian children’s

21:04

charity that worked in Gaza yeah so over

21:06

the last year obviously hospitals

21:09

normally are meant to be a place of

21:11

safety where people go to be safe and

21:13

over the last year obviously we’ve seen

21:16

um the opposite um instances where

21:19

hospitals have been targeted How

21:21

concerned were you of this fear while

21:23

you were there or were you just so busy

21:25

um constantly dealing with cases that

21:27

you weren’t it wasn’t even in your in

21:29

your uh in your mind at the time I think

21:33

in the March it it wasn’t in it wasn’t

21:35

really in my mind we we when we got to

21:39

uh the Raffa Crossing we had our journey

21:43

DEC conflicted with the idea and then I

21:45

was at the hospital and I I don’t think

21:48

I really thought too much about my

21:51

safety in August we were partnered with

21:56

msf and they take security very very

21:59

seriously they had had two of their

22:01

vehicles

22:03

targeted um and that never made the news

22:06

because the people that were killed were

22:07

Palestinian Medics so they had had their

22:10

fingers burnt and they were really

22:12

conscientious and every night we had to

22:14

do a security briefing with them where

22:18

we would go through a map of the

22:20

territory what our Escape Route would be

22:24

uh where the car would be who was

22:25

driving and every night there would be a

22:28

conversation that went I’m not sure

22:30

whether you’ll be able to go to the

22:31

hospital tomorrow and at the time I just

22:33

remember being infuriated by them that

22:36

they weren’t you know letting us just

22:38

get on with with work but and now that

22:40

I’m back and I look at how on top of it

22:44

they were I think you know I’m I’m very

22:48

grateful I was with them they took they

22:50

took security very seriously this might

22:52

be a impossible

22:56

question but do you have have a profound

22:59

memory from your time in Gaza that will

23:02

always stay with

23:03

you I had a group of of medical students

23:07

that um I inherited from the European

23:10

Gaza hospital and there were eight of

23:12

them it was only due to them that I got

23:15

through the volume of work that I got

23:17

through I became very fond of them and

23:20

when I knew I was going back in August

23:23

on our group chat I said you know this

23:25

is where I’m going to be and we decided

23:27

that we would I would take some time off

23:29

on a Sunday and have breakfast together

23:33

and on the Saturday

23:35

morning Abdul ramman died his house got

23:39

bombed in a a single fire attack and he

23:42

was killed with his aunt and uh his

23:46

cousin and he was

23:49

21 and he was a third-year medical

23:52

student the following day obviously you

23:54

know nobody turned up everybody was

23:56

really depressed and

23:59

it was really difficult but then on the

24:01

Monday they all came and we sat in the

24:04

garden and we sort of talked about you

24:06

know what was happening with medical

24:08

schools and you know what what how Abdul

24:12

Rama’s parents were um and then Abdul

24:16

rahman’s sister contacted me and I she

24:20

said to me

24:22

um you really inspired

24:25

him um you know thank you very much

24:27

don’t forget him

24:31

thank you so much Victoria for

24:33

everything you’ve done and you do and um

24:38

that you will do in the future

24:40

[Applause]

24:46

[Music]