Azken bolada honetan ikusi dugunez (Israel, AEB eta NATO zale estatu guztiak errudun, Palestinaren genozidioan izeneko sarreretan), onik, deus gutxi espero daiteke NATO-ko estatu kide guztietatik…

Guk GAZA segituko dugu aipatzen.

oooooo

@tobararbulu # mm@tobararbulu

abe. 18

Exactly right. ALL government spending is taxation.

The government either taxes you directly or, by increasing the money supply, taxes you through inflation.

oooooo

United Nations Geneva@UNGeneva

Segida

oooooo

ooo

Norman Finkelstein: “The West Will Nuke China Before It Lets Go” *Unpaywalled from 10.11.24*

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfukDzdTOuY)

“I think the reasonable conclusion is that Gaza is no more. There’s nothing left in Gaza.”

Monday the 7th marked one full year of genocide in Gaza, the darkest era of a decades-long occupation by Israel, which has now begun to spread into the broader Middle East region.

This week we’re joined by Gaza expert and Useful Idiots fan-favorite Norman Finkelstein to look back on this genocidal year.

Norm points out that this is not, as Western and Israeli media claims, an “Israel-Hamas war.” This is not war. This is genocide. And Israel is not targeting Hamas; they are killing civilians, destroying civilian infrastructure, and picking off journalists, health workers, and children.

“I read this letter,” he tells us, “from sixty-five physicians from around the world who gave testimony as to what they observed. And every one of the physicians testified that the children who were coming into the hospital had bullet wounds to the skull or to the chest. No shrapnel. It wasn’t bombs and shrapnel. It was targeted bullet wounds to the skull and to the chest of children. What does that have to do with war?”

“There were fifty-four disabled children who used the school in the convent complex. They fired two shells at it. What does that have to do with war?”

Norman also recalls meeting Hezbollah members, and shares what he got wrong about the organization. “Israel, he says, “is willing to kill for material benefit, and Hezbollah and Hamas are willing to die for survival” He also recounts his time meeting Hamas leaders, and explains Israel’s unfair advantage:

“Israel is the entrenched, concentrated manifestation of Western imperialism. It’s got deep roots. It’s got the whole Western system behind it, that Western system which won’t let go. It will nuke China before it lets go of its global dominance. And in order to defeat it, it requires a very long-term struggle and intense calculation.”

Subscribe for the full interview where Norman explains this despair, and the generational hopelessness which lacks historical precedent.

“Our generation,” he laments, “has, for good reason, lost the belief, the conviction that we have the force of history behind us. That we have the force of justice behind us. Our generation believes there’s a good chance we’ll be defeated. There’s a good chance we’re not going to win.”

But that doesn’t mean we should give up.

“The only thing I can say as a conclusion is you never know. You can only know one thing for certain: If you do nothing, it can only get worse.”

It’s that certainty that he says keeps him going. “If you resist, there are moments where it looks very grim. And then there’s that folk song, it’s always darkest before the dawn. It’s this hope that keeps me carrying on. It’s always darkest before the dawn.”

“There’s another reality. There’s something in the human constitution that simply can’t do nothing. In the face of such death and devastation, you just can’t.”

Transkripzioa:

0:00

we are so excited to be joined by political scientist Norman finlin who is a prolific writer and the author of

0:06

several books including the Holocaust industry and Gaza and inquest into its

0:11

martyrdom and this is a very sobering interview with Norman uh not just because we’re in a really Bleak time um

0:20

but because Norman offers some really Frank words for the state of the

0:26

resistance you know there was a lot of Hope that perhaps Israel would suffer a

0:31

major strategic defeat a lot of people really believe that it would um after it went into Gaza but Norman after you know

0:39

so many years of studying this conflict has a different take and has a really sobering assessment of you know

0:46

what this current moment means for the Palestinian cause um especially in the aftermath of the killing of Hassan Nala

0:54

of Hezbollah now he also makes clear that he’s not judging and one he’s not offering um any

1:01

sort of uh sanctimonious point of view on any decisions by these various resistance

1:07

groups because it’s very easy to judge when you’re not living under occupation when you’re not up against this

1:13

genocidal government that Israel is but it is important to be as clear out as we can and to um recognize as Norman talks

1:21

about this interview where maybe he got some things wrong and I think this is a really enlightening informative

1:26

interview is always from a useful OT fan favorite someone one who Katie both you and I have learned a lot from so let’s

1:34

hear from Norman [Applause]

1:39

pickl Norman thanks so much for joining us well thank you for having me it’s always my pleasure to be on with K and

1:46

Aaron we’re recording this uh in the one-year anniversary week of October 7th so let me just start with a general

1:52

question you know your overall assessment of where things are right now I have to enter a caveat before I even

1:59

be again which is right now the center of gravity has moved to the

2:06

battlefield and I’m not a military expert so it’s very hard for me to

2:12

assess the current situation at the political level it’s

2:19

been surprisingly quiescent I can’t remember a single

2:26

instance where the security Council has been so silent or Not So Silent has been

2:34

totally silent I mean at this point there would have been meetings there would have been different resolution

2:41

draft resolutions being circulated there would be so much activity in the

2:47

security Council and so far there’s been total

2:56

silence so at the politic iCal level it’s been

3:03

inactive Netanyahu uh he’s I suppose an intelligent man

3:09

that’s what everybody says and I don’t believe in in um uh

3:15

disputing uh quarreling with facts but he his his main his main ability is in

3:26

taking advantage of opportunities he’s a politician in the first place he’s a politician and

3:33

he knew which is correct that once you entered into the last months of the Electoral cycle all of the media would

3:41

be focused on the election Gaza Lebanon they would drop to

3:48

as it used to be called below the fold of the paper of the front page and so he

3:54

can get away with anything so immediately as camel Harris got the nomination if

4:02

you look you could see it’s very clear uh immediately as that cycle began the

4:08

camela Harris cycle Israel was committing a massacre every day it was

4:13

just bombing this refugee camp bombing that school because it knew could get away with it there would be virtually no

4:20

cover uh coverage of it uh even now let’s say you were to put on the screen

4:25

the front page of the New York Times uh top story stor is the hurricane then the

4:33

camela Harris Trump and then the third story and Gaza Lebanon is below the fault as we used to call below the fault

4:39

me below the top half of the paper he knew that he would be insulated from any

4:48

political pressures he meaning Netanyahu he would be insulated from any political

4:54

pressures for the last couple of months of the Electoral cycle

5:00

so uh politics has been absent the

5:05

college scene I think probably students are regrouping and

5:13

trying to figure out how to move forward after the Draconian Crackdown in Spring

5:23

and now the implementation of all of these uh restrictions on Free Speech uh which

5:32

make a lively movement uh well nigh impossible so on

5:38

all the fronts it’s been on the political fronts there’s been an absence

5:45

of activity and on the battlefield it’s very hard to assess Gaza as was

5:55

indicated yesterday uh many out

6:00

Outlets um media Outlets humanitarian

6:06

organizations there was the one-year commemoration of what happened in

6:11

Gaza and I think the reasonable conclusion is that Gaza is no more

6:19

there’s nothing left in Gaza right now if you recall at the very

6:27

very beginning when Israel first gave the order I’m talking about

6:33

October uh roughly around October 10th 2023 when Israel gave the order

6:41

for the people in the north to go south and they drew the line remember they

6:46

drew the line uh I said at the time well it’s obvious what Israel is going to

6:52

do it’s going to declare nor the northern sector a buffer zone and and uh

7:01

Annex effectively Annex the northern part of Gaza now it took a

7:07

year but that’s actually what they’re doing right now the claim is which I

7:13

consider complete you know nonsense we’re going to clear out amas and then we’ll let the people back no they’re not

7:19

letting the people back that’s not going to happen first of all there’s nothing there’s not going to be anything left to

7:26

come back to uh they will flatten the whole Northern sector of Gaza that’s

7:32

what they’re saying you know there’s no secret about that and Lebanon it looks

7:38

pretty Grim um I think there’s no

7:44

denying that Hezbollah was dealt a very big blow what will

7:51

happen I don’t know I I’ve been listening to all these

7:58

military anal polies and whether Israel knocked out all of

8:05

hezbollah’s long range missiles whether Israel can isolate the south of Lebanon from the

8:12

Lani down and just Bomb It relentlessly like he did like it did Gaza and

8:19

everybody will be wiped out I’m not a military person so I don’t know I know

8:25

that the party of God will fight to the last person

8:30

but it’s not even clear whether that will be an option

8:37

because um sad Nala’s

8:43

stature enabled him to carve out some political

8:50

space Vis of V Iran in other words he doesn’t just do what Iran says he had

8:57

was able to assert and Independence and autonomy and now um that’s not going to

9:05

be an option assuming the person that replaced him is in his 20s or 30s which

9:12

is what Thea was when he replaced his predecessor when his predecessor was

9:18

assassinated by Israel if it’s a young man he can’t

9:24

stand up to the Iranian regime and the Iranian regime it’s going to be looking

9:29

out for its own interests and and they say uh we’re going to end all the

9:35

resistance in exchange for a ceasefire and then the Hezbollah won’t have an

9:41

option except to agree so they’ve lost a lot of their autonomy I believe so all

9:48

in all it looks Grim what what what can I

9:53

tell you I it’s the only thing one can do I I had a very close friend the West

10:01

Bank and when the second in when the first Ino Was Defeated I said I asked

10:10

him did anything good uh come of this meaning the Civil Revolt did anything

10:17

positive come of it and he said because he was a real political person he

10:23

said the Lessons Learned Lessons Learned he said Lessons Learned and it’s the

10:30

same thing here one has to be very sober analyzing the lessons

10:37

learned and I learned a lot from the past year I made errors significant

10:44

errors in some cases born of Illusions so trying to figure out the

10:52

Lessons Learned I’m curious your analysis of NASA’s decision to enter

10:59

intervene the position he was put in by October 7th it seems pretty widely accepted that Nella did not have

11:05

advanced knowledge of hamas’s operation um can you talk about what you think

11:11

compelled him to intervene and how he’s tried to calibrate hezbollah’s role ever

11:17

since um leading up to his murder which we now know it’s been widely said that

11:22

Nala had agreed to 21-day ceasefire with Israel but he was still refusing to drop

11:28

his insistence that a permanent ceasefire be linked to a ceasefire in Gaza and according to one Israeli

11:34

official spoke to NBC News that’s what basically LED Israel to decide to kill him in one of his early speeches maybe

11:41

the first or second after October 7th he was very clear that they didn’t

11:50

know and you could see if you read between the

11:56

lines he was not happy that they had not been informed by Hamas

12:03

of the decision to attack on October

12:08

7th and at that point What’s called the axis of

12:14

resistance would have lost all credibility if it did nothing if you

12:21

recall in those first few weeks everybody was saying what is Hezbollah going to do what is Hezbollah going to

12:28

do it was an expectation that in the midst of at

12:34

least at the beginning it was a declared genocide now they muted the language

12:39

over time but at the beginning it was a declared genocide and Palestine had always been

12:48

formally a sacred cause for Iran and as a personal cause for Nala so

13:00

uh he did an interview 30 years ago and he was asked I can’t remember

13:08

the exact question but the response was if I die if and when I die I want it to

13:15

be for Palestine it was for him a deeply

13:20

entrenched conviction and commitment both at a personal and a political level

13:26

he had to do something uh on the the other hand as M RIS said in his last

13:34

speech he said Israel has the technological Edge and they’re smart

13:40

enough to know that you know around October 7th so that was just another way

13:46

of saying we’re not ready for the great confrontation and so he tried to carve

13:54

out a middle middle path namely

14:00

lobbing rockets and missiles at Northern Israel not really causing all that much

14:06

damage apart from the population had to evacuate about esar 50 to 60,000 people

14:15

had to evacuate but not a fullscale

14:21

confrontation and if you look back then by

14:26

far by an immeasurable distance um the worst

14:34

blows were being suffered in South Lebanon you know hundreds of people were

14:40

killed in South Lebanon including hundreds of hesa Fighters and about uh is it a 200,000 or

14:49

100 to 200,000 Lebanese had to evacuate today the Times show the pictures of

14:57

South Lebanon and looks like the moonscape it looks like go actually it looks worse so he didn’t have options he

15:06

tried to carve out the path when I said at the time if you remember I said at the time that when people are asking

15:13

what do you think is going to happen the day after what do you think is going to happen the day after I said I think we’re closer to the beginning than to

15:19

the end because I don’t believe that Israel will give heah a

15:26

pass they’re going to do something think now that was only partially

15:34

correct because it didn’t

15:40

until the uh assassinations and then the walkietalkie and

15:46

pager undertaking it didn’t occur to me that

15:52

they were going to use this occasion to wipe out hezb you’ve said that you were wrong about hez and I want know if you

15:59

could elaborate on what you mean by that well I’ll begin with an anecdote uh a Germaine

16:07

anecdote uh I remember discussing Hezbollah with professor

16:13

chsky and uh he said I don’t believe it’s a significant military threat to

16:19

Israel and I obviously I take seriously anything he says but I

16:26

was skeptical of that judgement uh especially because they did

16:34

get at minimum a draw in 2006 so it seemed like they had

16:42

established their own deterrence capability against

16:47

Israel uh so I didn’t agree with that judgment what I didn’t see because I

16:53

didn’t know was after 2006 Israel invested a large amount of

17:02

resources to The Showdown to the final showdown Hezbollah had that unique

17:11

characteristic of being uh very

17:16

[Music] ideological but also it tapped

17:22

into the mental resources of the Arab Muslim World they are fundamental L the

17:29

fact that every Arab and Muslim is going to be a civil engineer an electrical

17:36

engineer I know Arabs and Muslims are well I they’re part of my life at this point everyone’s going to be a civil

17:43

engineer an electrical engineer or go into something like it okay so you had

17:51

this wedding this melding of ideological conviction

17:59

and Technical know how and I felt I

18:06

believed that the technical the ideological conviction was such that they

18:15

could Prevail or at least equal Israel what I didn’t see and I I frankly

18:23

have to admit it and here’s going to be a digression and you’ll forgive me and you can stop me

18:29

so my best friend growing up was yeah was Mark H and Mark H was a surpassingly

18:36

brilliant fellow for sure and is and he eventually became the

18:44

CTO Chief technology officer for Unisys which is one of the large computer firms

18:50

in Washington and very connected to the defense department and he liked mental games

18:59

you know when we were all out on our bicycles he was in his room playing

19:04

chess he liked mental games so Mark eventually became the head

19:11

of the computer system in the bush Cheney White

19:16

House and he once said to me he was trying to I guess justify what he was doing he

19:26

said you know Norman uh they they work very

19:32

hard meaning Bush not Bush but you know Cheney Rumsfeld and so forth and in fact

19:38

it was true they worked very hard if you read the stories about Rumsfeld rumel

19:46

stood at a lecturn he never sat at his desk he stood at a lecturn and he used to give all the write all these memal

19:54

and they called them rumsfeld’s snowflakes he was always giving the memos you know and um I

20:03

didn’t I didn’t get

20:09

that the other side has his ideological convictions which are as fervent as

20:15

Hezbollah except they had a thousand times the resources because it’s the Pentagon it’s

20:23

British intelligence it’s German intelligence it’s French intelligence it’s the whole quot unquote Western

20:29

World which is invested in bringing down Hezbollah and eventually Iran of

20:37

course so it was unrealistic that they could withstand

20:46

the force of a combined and compounded

20:52

intelligence of all of these organizations so I was I I I guess

20:59

that’s what Professor chsky was thinking at the back of his head you know how can a Guerilla

21:04

movement win against the Pentagon in terms of intelligence you

21:10

know not intelligence like smartness obviously but intelligence no no the intelligence community and especially

21:18

also if I can make a point that if Israel’s Doctrine is to deliberately destroy civilian infrastructure as a way

21:24

to deter its military adversaries which you know Israel is doing right now in Gaza and also in Lebanon and also if

21:31

Israel is hesitant to fight a ground war which clearly is and it can just it has the advantage in the air which it’s

21:38

perfectly content to continue pursuing um I wonder if that’s also if that’s

21:44

also a factor that puts Hezbollah at a significant disadvantage because Hezbollah has tried to Target military sites throughout the course of its

21:50

intervention yeah but the the the expectation was that if they do not

21:58

relent in their rocket missile attacks it prevents the Israelis Mr Netanyahu

22:06

from declaring Victory and so at some point they have to launch the ground Invasion and uh at that point Hezbollah

22:15

has all the advantages it has the two main advantages of its home territory so

22:22

it knows every square inch of Lebanon and it has the second which is not a

22:29

small Advantage they’re ready to die israelies don’t want to

22:35

die not one of those persons in the Israeli Army is ready to die for the cause they want to go to their

22:43

nightclubs they want to go on their on their trips abroad uh Dying For A Cause

22:50

is not on their agenda whereas for Hezbollah it is on the members of the

22:56

party party of God uh they’re ready they’re prepared and at this point they

23:02

probably want to as I believe uh Nala wanted to die at the end because

23:08

otherwise it makes no sense how he died um so that’s a very big

23:15

Advantage uh but that Advantage may not come into play because it’s possible

23:22

they’ll do what they did in Gaza uh you know if you look at the figures for deaths and the Israeli

23:30

Army it’s less than one a day the last figure they gave out was

23:38

after October 7 uh it was 349 Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza

23:46

that’s in 365 days it’s less than one a day because there are no battles in Gaza

23:53

this is all a there’s no war in Gaza the moment Israel

23:59

the moment the media reported each day the conflict under the sub headline it

24:04

would be the main headline and the sub line the sub headline everywhere was the

24:11

Israel Hamas War the Israel Hamas War the moment they got that sub headline

24:18

Israel won the propaganda War because they were depicting it as a

24:24

war there was no war in Gaza there are no battles in Gaza you search your

24:29

memory 365 days do you remember one day when a battle was

24:35

reported what they do is they just flatten everything in their path pulverize it uh and then they move

24:44

in uh in order to know blow up not they don’t even go into the tunnels they blow

24:50

up the shafts of the tunnels um there was uh no war in Gaza it’s it’s all it’s

24:56

all a myth that’s why you know when he hear the talk Israel says we killed 18,000

25:02

Fighters Hamas terrorists how would they know how would they know who they

25:09

killed God’s Ministry of Health doesn’t know because Hamas doesn’t wear uniforms they don’t carry around IDs

25:17

saying Hamas terrorist so the Ministry of Health hasn’t the clue whether this

25:23

young male in front of them is Hamas just was a young a young male who was walking in the street or in a building

25:29

so how would Israel know it never actually fights Hamas

25:35

militants it may see some dead bodies on the ground but it doesn’t have a a clue

25:41

whether it’s a militant every time you see the Israeli Figures it’s you you could predict I could predict every

25:48

figure Israel will produce from now till next year you know how you know how many are produced how many what numbers

25:54

they’ll use it’s very simple whatever number isra excuse me whatever number H uh the

26:01

Ministry of Health releases as total deaths let’s say now they’re saying

26:07

42,000 right so Israel is going to say we killed 21,000 Hamas terrorists this

26:15

they want to show the one: one ratio to prove they’re the most moral army in the world because other places it’s 3: one

26:23

or 4: one but here it’s one: one so all they do is take the total number K

26:28

divide it in half and say that’s the number of militants we killed or terrorists that we killed they don’t

26:34

have a clue there’s no fighting going on in Gaza it’s a genocide I don’t care about the

26:42

technical term you know how legal term that’s for the international court of justice to uh adjudicate

26:52

and law is its own discipline and how they Define genocide uh is not always

27:01

the same as the way a lay person or Oxford English Dictionary describe uh

27:07

defines genocide but I’ll just if you allow me uh since I’ve been writing about this subject I’ll just so Oxford’s

27:15

dictionary def defines genocide as the murder of a large number of people from

27:21

a particular Nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that Nation or

27:27

group and by that definition you know that’s what’s happening in Gaza uh the uh the

27:35

war is just it’s secondary you know obviously if you want to commit a

27:40

genocide you want to take out the enemy uh forces because they’re an obstacle to

27:48

achieving your goal but defeating Hamas is simply a means to an end the end is

27:54

to solve the Gaza question you know and and it’s uh people think this is just a

28:01

terminological issue but it’s not it’s a question of trying to capture reality

28:07

what word captures the reality if you take rul hilberg’s Ma you know magnum

28:14

opus it’s called the destruction of the European Jews it’s not called the war

28:21

against the European Jews now there was a book by Lucy d widwit

28:26

uh she was complete idiot called the war against the Jews about the Nazi because

28:33

she didn’t understand what it was I remember my mother she whenever

28:39

she would hear mention of a war against the Jew what are you

28:45

talking about wasn’t a war it was an extermination she said we were

28:51

cockroaches they would Shine the Light on us and we would Scurry to this side

28:57

then would Shine the Light here we’d Scurry to this side we were cockroaches they were Exterminating us and of course

29:06

that image and the appropriateness of that image because my mother had sensitivity to language even

29:13

though English was her uh several languages but she knew Latin and she knew the roots and she understood

29:19

language uh that came to mind for me because you see the Gins scurrying here

29:26

scurrying there go to to the north go to the South go to m mswi go go go go

29:33

always scurrying scurrying scurrying it’s an extermination and wherever they go they get

29:39

bombed wherever they go they get bombed it’s an extermination has nothing to do

29:45

with war so as I said the moment it became

29:51

classified as the Israel Hamas War Israel won 90% of the propaganda battle

29:59

the only ones who understood what was happening were of course the South Africans they went to the icj to say

30:07

this is a genocide it’s not a war and if you read their application they never

30:13

use language like a disproportionate attack they don’t use language like

30:19

disproportionate they don’t use language like even indiscriminate they use the language

30:25

they’re targeting the civilians do you know what a disproportionate attack means it means you have a military

30:33

Target and you cause what’s called excessive damage to civilians and

30:39

civilian infrastructure so let’s say you want to attack Nala you want to kill

30:45

Nala does that justify killing 300 civilians or is it

30:53

disproportionate but a disproportionate attack presumes

30:58

you are targeting a military site or combatants but that’s not what’s been

31:04

happening in Gaza they’re not attacking military Target if they hit a military Target it’s just by

31:11

accident it’s a statistical error if they hit it’s the equivalent of the

31:16

statistical error military Norman you can’t even Define it as conventional military because Gaza is not a state it

31:22

doesn’t have a standing army it’s a there’s Hamas is a militia with some weapons but nothing that any functional

31:28

Army would have so even the term military is not even appropriate the um fight combat with

31:36

Guerilla armies is obviously not something new uh and Guerilla armies

31:43

under International what called International humanitarian law they’re also Bound by the laws of war so it’s

31:54

obviously a very unequal War but would still say if it’s a a Guerilla Army yeah

32:03

uh you can say the laws of war apply but this is not a war it’s a

32:09

genocide uh you know I I was on with this guy Richard Kemp uh Aaron might

32:14

know him do you know him Katie the British yes he’s Israel’s main military

32:22

apologist and I was on with him on Pierce Morgan a couple of days ago it was a complete disaster but that’s a

32:28

separate issue I made the point I said look yesterday I read this letter from

32:36

65 Physicians from around the world they’re not from God 65 Physicians who

32:42

gave testimony as to what they observed and every one of the Physicians all

32:48

65 testified that the children they were the children

32:55

who were coming into the hospital they had bullet wounds to the skull or to the

33:01

chest no shrapnel it wasn’t you know bombs and shrapnel it was targeted

33:07

bullet wounds to the uh skull and to the chest of

33:14

choim what does that have to do with war they’re targeting children snipers

33:21

are targeting children there’s the convent I’ve been reading the na’vi P un

33:27

rep report on Gaza and they describ the convent so

33:32

there are two women in the convent they’re rushing to go to the bathroom the snipers killed they knew they were

33:40

who the women were because the church the Catholic church had sent all the coordinates and all the information to

33:46

Israeli officials they know who they were killing they then fired two tank shells at a school for disabled children

33:55

there were 54 disabled children who used School in the con in the convent complex

34:00

they fired two tank shells at it what does that have to do with a war

34:06

given the fact that that basically I think what we’re saying is that Israel

34:12

is willing to kill for an idea or for material benefit and Hezbollah and Hamas

34:19

are willing to die for Survival let’s say what they see as survival does that

34:25

make armed resistance pointless I’m not a military

34:33

man and I feel very uncomfortable from the safety of my

34:40

home and the fact that I had the opportunity to live a long

34:48

life uh to advise or counil others to sacrifice

34:56

themselves and not and have their life

35:01

terminated now when I was in college I I feel I don’t feel at ease

35:09

one of the things about the great you know my tradition the Revolutionary

35:15

tradition and also with people like Nala it was

35:21

clear that death the the prospect of death

35:28

was not in their mental equation that came with the turf that you’re going to

35:35

die or there’s a high probability that you’re going to die but they never talk about it it’s like it comes with being

35:44

that so they never when the 1905 Revolution breaks out in Russia okay

35:54

that’s not the 1917 the pre uh 197 1905 Rosa she’s a

36:00

young woman at that point Luxembourg Rosa Luxembourg excuse me she has a physical

36:07

disability she goes right into the Revolution and people say to her Rosa

36:12

don’t go don’t go it’s danger is there I know was danger is there you know uh that never deterred her she it’s a

36:19

revolution that’s what I’ve lived for I’ve lived to see that day so of

36:25

course she goes so they all expected to die so when they tell others to

36:30

fight it’s not hypocritical you know in my

36:36

opinion you know pure speculation when all

36:41

of sis colleagues comrades had been

36:50

assassinated because all the whole senior tier who he had been with for 30 years he felt there was something

36:56

morally wrong that was still alive he should die too and he went he

37:03

went to his death so when you ask me that question I feel uncomfortable from

37:10

the safety and ease of my apartment in

37:15

Brooklyn to be counseling on that

37:21

question I what I would say is I I

37:28

can’t fault those who elect to resist

37:34

with arms if they have exhausted all other

37:41

possibilities one of the things I came to really respect about Professor chsky

37:50

was he very very very

37:55

rarely counil War he would always say every other

38:03

option has to be exhausted before

38:09

you resort to Armed resistance because I

38:15

I think two things number one it’s too easy to be

38:21

a uh a general by remote control and number two because of his

38:28

whole philosophical training he came to attach a huge value

38:38

to this thing called human life and that you don’t

38:44

carelessly and cavalar uh destroy life it’s the

38:52

absolute value so I will not if all options have

38:59

been exhausted I will not say no you can’t do it but on the other hand I’m

39:07

not counseling anyone and you know Long Live arm struggle which is what I was as

39:12

a kid you know and not in my day I was a maist and one of the two things to make

39:19

you a maist where you have to believe in the dict I know it’s going to sound completely insane and fair enough it is

39:26

uh you had to support the dictatorship of the proletariat and you had to support armed

39:32

struggle that you couldn’t peacefully transition to

39:37

socialism you had to uh it was inevitable that there would be an armed

39:44

Showdown so uh I I passed through that phase and now I’m much more

39:51

cautious uh reserved before I counsel others and just to clarify it wasn’t a

39:57

moral question it was a yeah look that was another something I had to learn

40:06

okay in our own history American history there were many slave rebellions not

40:13

many but there were slave rebellions but those slave rebellions could not have

40:19

destroyed the system so deeply entrenched as slavery they couldn’t uh it required the power of a

40:28

state the United States and it required a civil war that cost 700,000

40:34

lives to even begin to

40:51

extrateeny it took reconstruction and then it took the Civil Rights Movement

40:57

so I say this because what Hamas did was completely

41:04

unrealistic I don’t fault them any more than I fault Nat Turner or John Brown

41:11

but it was unrealistic Israel is and I know sound like a cliche and I

41:18

loathe cliches but it’s the entrenched

41:24

concentrated manifestation of Western imperialism it’s this you

41:30

know very concentrated intense

41:36

manifestation it’s it’s got Deep Roots it’s got the whole Western system

41:44

behind it that Western system which won’t let go it won’t let go it will

41:51

nuke China before it lets go of its Global dominance

41:58

and in order to defeat it it requires a very

42:04

long-term struggle and intense calculation you can’t do it by a throw

42:12

of the dice hamas’s approach was we’ll do it and see what happens you

42:19

know it’s a throw of the dice we we’ll just see uh you know the

42:25

famous line but so with Napoleon on you jump in and we’ll see what

42:33

happens you know but you can’t upro a system like that because it’s not just

42:39

Israel it’s the whole Western it’s the whole Legacy of Western colonialism and

42:45

Western imperialism is now manifest in that so-called

42:50

State and you just can’t do it by a throw of the dice and I didn’t really

42:58

see that I thought okay it’s going to set in motion all sorts of like a

43:03

pinball machine it’s going to set in motion all sorts of uh things here there

43:09

and who knows what’s going to happen well you know what we knew we should have known what’s

43:16

going to happen you can’t defeat them by a random act a throw of the div dice it

43:25

requires a lot more calculation concentration uh real focus on how you

43:33

achieve this goal I didn’t see that it was wrong you can’t you can’t you can’t

43:40

defeat a system like that by a random throw of the dice any more than Nat

43:46

Turner could have brought down slavery with 80 other people uh thinking well

43:53

maybe there’ll be an uprising no you can’t do that way I’m not faulting him

43:59

obviously but it’s what the folks in Gaza did was basically what Nat Turner

44:05

did or what John Brown did now you can say it was you can mark it as a

44:13

milestone to the final Victory which was the abolition of

44:18

slavery but it’s not the same thing as what was required to uproot the

44:26

system especially if you don’t coordinate with your allies and including you know the

44:31

ones that can do the most damage to Israel like Hezbollah um and Hamas did what not Turner did he

44:40

just assumed that if they go on this uh rampage that the slaves will rise up he

44:46

didn’t tell anybody he just assumed it would happen and so did John Brown he thought the same thing but that’s not

44:54

how that’s not how you when it requires a lot more uh

45:01

preparation calculation you know at some point yeah you have to make take the plunge and see what happens but not

45:08

before you’ve done a lot of preparation and calculation and like you said he didn’t even tell them yeah Norman I

45:16

wanted to get your reaction to something Netanyahu said this week he basically threatened a new Scorch Earth campaign

45:23

in Lebanon similar to Gaza he said to the people of Lebanon in a message recorded in English he said you have an

45:30

opportunity to save Lebanon before it falls into the abyss of a long war that will lead to destruction and suffering

45:36

like we see in Gaza you have an opportunity to save Lebanon before it

45:41

falls into the abyss of a long war that would lead to destruction and suffering like we see in

45:47

Gaza it doesn’t have to be that way what did you make of this statement is he basically asking the people of Lebanon

45:53

to rise up against Hezbollah and if they don’t he’s going to turn Lebanon into Gaza yeah that’s their strategy to try

46:00

to turn the population against uh

46:06

Hezbollah it didn’t work in 2006 during

46:12

the 3 33 or 34 days I can’t remember

46:17

during the 33 or 34 day war the popul the population of Lebanon

46:25

the support for hzb a sour to about 80% uh now it might be different now

46:33

remember in in 2006 Israel caused enormous it bombed every bridge in

46:38

Lebanon I mean it was really brutal but nothing on the level now you know I’ll

46:44

tell you an interesting thing I was speaking in Florida a few months ago and

46:50

there was a young woman from Gaza who was on the full bright and

46:56

she actually got out to go to Florida and she made a you know she was probably

47:01

20 years old and she made a very interesting observation she

47:08

says I always know how a new war is going to

47:14

begin it’s where they left off in the last war so Israel reaches this

47:20

threshold in the last war and then the new war

47:25

begins where that threshold that was crossed at the end of the

47:31

war so at the end of let’s say operation pillar of defense

47:39

2012 Israel Ends by targeting the high-rise what are called the historic

47:45

buildings in Gaza she says in the next War they

47:51

start by targeting the highrise so I make this point because

47:58

Israel began the new round in Lebanon at the threshold had reached had

48:06

crossed in 2006 so it was total decimation there was no

48:14

Reserve uh and there were two factors well there were yeah there were

48:20

basically two factors Factor number one Lebanon was already suffering before

48:27

the current situation because the economy had collapsed the their currency lost 98% of

48:37

its value so already the people in Lebanon were hurting before 2000 before the Israeli

48:46

uh attack uh so there was that

48:52

problem and there is the intensity and the intensity may turn the

49:00

population against Hezbollah so they may succeed in their

49:06

goal of turning the population against Hezbollah speaking of Hezbollah I know

49:12

that you spent time with them and you also spent time with Hamas not significant time I want to be clear

49:17

about not that I’m afraid like I’m G to get arrested uh but I I want to stick Faithfully to the facts on one day a

49:25

tour I think in 2007 they took me on a tour of the South well I wanted to know

49:31

what from that experience you learned that you didn’t know before your tour

49:37

and also a parallel question is what you learned from your time with Hamas that

49:42

you didn’t know before that and how it shapes your view of what’s happening now

49:48

I guess from hesah the main thing I took away which I

49:54

think I was wrong the high level of confidence and

49:59

dedication commitment you know I remember they had a translator do any of you know much about

50:06

simultaneous translating okay it’s a it’s an art you

50:12

know it’s an art and I remember when I was in Germany when my book on the

50:18

Holocaust industry came out they had the best translators the German translators

50:23

and the way they do it is you’re talking they’ll put a word here then down the

50:30

page a word here and down the page a word here and then their mind is trained

50:37

to fill in all the words between so you could a word here like the and then 20

50:44

words later is the word good and then 20 words later is and so and they they

50:51

they’re trained to fill in all the words between the two words theyve put down

50:57

and I was kind of mesmerized as I was watching these German translators and then when I was in Lebanon and there was

51:04

a translator and he was doing the same thing I these guys are pretty they’re uh

51:12

they’re on the top on on top of their craft and then there was the conviction

51:18

it was the absolute Readiness it wasn’t even as I said when I was talking about

51:25

the Revolutionary tradition it wasn’t even the factor in their thinking of course we were willing to die for this cause I

51:34

and they showed me their the what they had built like there was a very high mountain in Lebanon and deep in the

51:43

ground was their headquarters uh and they said to me now

51:49

I’m not I no military expert they said this could withstand an atomic

51:55

bomb and that’s why I was so surprised when they initially when they said they killed

52:02

Nala I said that’s ridiculous this fellow will have been in

52:07

the mountain why was he going into the dill where Israel was bombing it every day uh it didn’t occur to me initially

52:15

that he wanted to die uh because they certainly had places which were

52:22

seemingly impregnable unless you you even to bunker um bunker Busters it

52:29

seemingly impregnable as for Hamas I have to be careful here because you have to

52:35

distinguish between professional competence and political competence my

52:43

dear friend s kasum she handles my social media and she’s Palestinian she’s

52:49

a brilliant chemist lives in Greece when I spoke disparagingly of Dr rtii Who was

52:56

the head of Hamas when I met him in I think 2002 she said

53:03

Norman uh Dr antis was a distinguished

53:09

pediatrician and he graduated first in his class in Pediatrics he was a very

53:14

impressive guy and so I have to respect that their

53:21

professional uh uh achievements might be very

53:28

impressive you know you take bosam naam who’s the official spokesperson for

53:34

Hamas now do you guys know him yeah I’ve interview I I interviewed him in during

53:40

the uh Sheik Jah um uhhuh Uprising back in May May 2021 yeah I’ve been in carus

53:48

I used to be not lately I’ve been was in correspondence with vosam naam he has

53:55

two phds from Germany you know two phds from Germany is not small

54:01

change but my impression has been that politically uh if you’ve lived in

54:08

this crushingly claustrophobic environment for so long uh Dr rentis had

54:15

been in an Israeli jail for 10 years uh s was in jail for 22 years and

54:24

you go from this close claustrophobic world of a jail cell to the not much

54:32

less claustrophobic world of Gaza it’s hard to have a broad vision of

54:38

the world it’s hard to see the

54:44

world politically in its fullness it tends to

54:51

constrict your mental political and moral

54:57

vision and I think Sinar is completely fluent in

55:04

Hebrew uh and he apparently is a smart

55:10

guy but I think he had Nat Turner was a very smart guy everybody said it whites

55:16

blacks they said Nat’s a smart guy no question but the world is so constricted

55:24

if you’re a slave or you’re a prisoner or um in

55:30

Gaza that it’s hard to have the broadness of vision that’s required to

55:37

defeat not just Israel not even just the United States in Israel but the entire Western World

55:46

which will not relinquish power it will not it won’t allow for the transition

55:57

from the center of gravity of the world shifting from the West to the east it will not let

56:04

go so in order to Prevail over that it

56:10

requires a capacious

56:15

worldview and I don’t think the people in Hamas even though as I said professionally you know when I saw b n

56:22

oh two phds of Germany not bad but then you can judge for yourself you know you

56:30

both of you you saw hamas’s

56:35

statement after October 7th you remember when they released that statement describing what they did and why they

56:44

did it you remember it was like 10 pages or something you cannot call that an

56:49

effective statement they weren’t able

56:58

to rise to the occasion I was in touch with I don’t think he’ll mind I was in

57:05

correspondence well look he was in correspondence with old journalist so I was in correspondence with bosam n

57:12

and I said to him don’t bother denying what happened October

57:17

7th you’re not going to convince anyone you might want to explain

57:23

it but denying it is not going to work you can deny this that or the other

57:32

you mean in terms of killing Civ Me In terms the civilians killed on camera yeah yeah on their

57:39

cameras on their cameras yeah you know you could say Obviously as you know to

57:46

the point of tedium the the the the claim about the rapes was false and you

57:52

could see it was very striking in the Hamas statements they were much less indignant much less

57:59

indignant about the question of killing civilians than the question of rapes yes it was the r accusation that really

58:06

outraged them they didn’t try very hard to deny the targeting of civilians but

58:11

the r thing because they knew that was a flat out life you so that the only

58:17

Nuance there is to what extent were the killings of sing committed by members of Hamas or maybe other people who broke out you know that there is a distinction

58:25

there but yeah look I I I think that’s there are all sorts of delineations and

58:32

I’m not going to deny that but the broad picture is pretty clear yeah the broad

58:38

picture is pretty clear and it’s pointless to deny it what you try to do

58:43

is explain it which is at least what I tried to do after October 7th explain

58:50

why this happened but not to deny it yes I was in communication with B

58:56

and he’s obviously a very smart guy but when it came to politics or even

59:06

a a subgroup of a uh a subcategory of

59:11

politics namely propaganda how do you talk to the public very weak very weak well and I

59:19

want to tie in two people who you’ve already mentioned I think this is Germaine to this topic and then we can wrap soon because we’ve kept you over

59:24

time but you know we’ve talked about in this interview both Chomsky and nasrala and I know that they met and I’ve heard

59:31

you say that you think actually nasrala took some of chomsky’s advice totally

59:36

totally was very striking to me well you know Professor Chomsky is very persuasive

59:42

obviously and uh Nala respected the life of the mind and he knew he was in for in

59:48

front of a formidable intellect and furthermore Nala understood that chsky

59:56

knows more about how the West Works than he does you know and so it was clear if

1:00:02

you listen to Nala speeches after he met with Professor chsky he

1:00:09

completely diminished the role of Israel in everything that’s happening in the

1:00:15

Middle East and attributed everything to the United States you would say Israel is just a porn of the United States

1:00:21

Israel is just used by the United States it’s all the United States that was vintage chsky I thought to myself okay

1:00:28

he persuaded him you know chsky was very is always very emphatic about that that

1:00:34

all the the the the evil come emanates from here Israel plays a subordinate

1:00:40

role relatively very limited autonomy in what it can or can do um to the point

1:00:49

sometimes I think Professor chsky underestimated the rool things like the Israel Lobby and uh that sort of stuff

1:00:57

he thought that everything Israel did was just serving us strategic

1:01:04

interests um yeah but it was clear uh I remember I asked Professor

1:01:10

chsky many times about his meeting with sa Nella and I my memory is now there

1:01:17

are two people who were with him and you might want to interview them Irene

1:01:22

ganger and Assaf curri they both went with chsky to meet Nala so you can want

1:01:29

to hear their Impressions uh actually they wrote a little book a South quy

1:01:35

with chsky on their trip to Lebanon when they met with Nala uh but remember Professor Chomsky

1:01:42

says he he barely said a word all he did was ask questions NASA

1:01:48

barely said a word yeah he just asked questions you know because he didn’t want to make he’s like chsky he’s like

1:01:57

I’m not here for small talk I remember when berred Russell the great philosopher and also uh he he Russell

1:02:05

basically was the chsky figure of the first half of the 20th century and uh uh

1:02:13

Russell meets Lenin Vladimir IL lenon and Lennon had no time for him I’m not

1:02:20

making I’m not making small talk and uh uh Lennon excuse me beron

1:02:28

Russell described lenon he said I’ve never met a person in my life who’s so

1:02:34

totally devoid of any ego he was just a theory

1:02:41

embodied he Revolution and that’s the same way you know with um with

1:02:48

Nella I have n chsky here I’m going to

1:02:53

get everything I can out of him as much much information as I can and it turned out he was he was utterly persuaded it’s

1:03:02

funny I did a live show with the Abby Martin and R cck and we showed a clip of

1:03:08

um of NOA and I had no idea he met with chsky but after hearing him talk about

1:03:13

like Israel and United States and the head of the snake and imperialism I joked I was like he sounds like a

1:03:18

combination of gome chsky and Jewish voice for

1:03:24

peace yeah well definitely the first definitely the first well you talking

1:03:30

about Zionism also in a way that reminded me of Jewish voice for peace but yeah uhuh we’re going to wrap soon

1:03:36

so if you could leave you know just moving now back to the overall picture

1:03:41

um just please leave us with some final comments and then we’ll and then we’ll wrap my final comment and I you know I

1:03:49

come from a tradition where especially if you were a C and C you know your your

1:03:55

basic work was in your mind and not with your uh hands or with a rifle you’re

1:04:01

supposed to always end on the positive note so my great friend uh my dear

1:04:08

Mentor Paul Sweezy the great the greatest of American Marxist

1:04:14

economists uh he would always end with but the forces of history and capitalism

1:04:20

it’s inevitable that’s going to be overthrown and for people of my age I really needed to hear

1:04:27

that this positive uh view of the future uh one of the things that

1:04:34

separates Our Generation from everyone that preceded it if you’re on the left is all preceding Generations had

1:04:42

absolute belief that history was on their side and that they would win we

1:04:48

would win history was our sight and the same thing even with Martin Luther King The Arc of history is long but it bends

1:04:55

towards Justice you know there’s always and our generation has for good reason lost the

1:05:02

the belief the conviction that we have the force of history behind us we have

1:05:08

the force of Justice behind us our generation or your generation it

1:05:15

believes there’s a good chance we’ll be defeated there’s a good chance we’re not

1:05:21

going to win uh the only thing I can say is a conclusion

1:05:26

is you never know you see you don’t know

1:05:31

you can know one thing for certain if you do nothing it can only

1:05:37

get worse if you do nothing it can go never can only get worse because the

1:05:44

greed that greed on the other side is

1:05:50

insatiable the moment that uh camela Harris was nominated

1:05:56

immediately the billionaire class said what are you going to do with capital gains you have to reduce the taxes and

1:06:03

the capital gains always de greed they don’t have enough money they never have

1:06:09

enough so if you don’t fight if you don’t resist if you are

1:06:17

passive it can only get worse and if you

1:06:22

resist there are moments where it looks very R uh and then there’s that folk song

1:06:30

It’s always darkest before the dawn it’s this hope that keeps me carrying on It’s

1:06:37

always darkest before the d d da and I look at the examples you know if you go

1:06:44

to 1860 1860 right Frederick Douglas writes an essay and he says it’s

1:06:53

hopeless we tried what was called back then moral suasion convincing people of

1:07:00

the wrongness of slavery we spoke Here We R there we put our lives in the line

1:07:07

because a lot of people who didn’t want to hear that message about slavery being wrong and he said we lost we have to

1:07:15

accept it and then the Civil War happens

1:07:20

couldn’t predict it it was impossible to predict

1:07:26

I The Worst Years of apartheid were emergency rule in the 1980s it looked

1:07:33

like parid had one um and you can name a thousand

1:07:41

examples where it’s darkest before the

1:07:47

dawn so I’m not going to say as they said in the

1:07:52

past uh when Rosa Luxembourg is in jail and every World War I happens which was

1:08:00

totally shattering for that generation you know you know the expression they call that generation that passed through

1:08:05

World War I they called The Lost Generation because they were so Shattered by the vast destruction of

1:08:13

European civilization okay and she would always she’s sitting in jail and she always

1:08:20

says I find Hope in the Subterranean forces at work mly history is on our

1:08:27

side we may not see it but it’s the Subterranean the forces below the

1:08:33

surface that are at work and they’re on our side we don’t have

1:08:39

that we don’t have that faith that Subterranean forces are at

1:08:46

work but there’s still the knowledge that you

1:08:53

really don’t know what will come next but what you

1:09:00

can say with certainty is if you do nothing not only nothing will happen

1:09:08

it’ll get worse it’ll get worse so that’s my final

1:09:15

message I’m not going to say history is on our

1:09:20

side because I’m not convinced of it and I don’t believe I will convince anyone

1:09:27

else in the face of reality what I would say is it’s

1:09:33

worth it’s worth the try that we might win it’s worth the

1:09:39

effort and there’s another reality there’s something in the human

1:09:46

Constitution that simply can’t do can’t do nothing yes the of such

1:09:56

death and Devastation you just can’t I don’t watch

1:10:02

it I don’t look at it I just I know it’s there I don’t want

1:10:09

to see it I block it all out and I just do my work I just do my work I don’t

1:10:16

want to see it I know it’s there but in the face of knowing it’s there to just

1:10:22

go on as if nothing is happening I think that the

1:10:28

whole human Constitution Rebels against them so it’s not really a

1:10:34

choice uh last word uh when the Spanish Civil War

1:10:40

happened uh Paul Robson who you know you can inform your listeners after I leave

1:10:46

he went to perform for the troops on the front line in the s j the Spanish Civil

1:10:53

War and he made a F this line and it’s engraved on his

1:10:59

Tombstone uh it said an artist must elect to fight for uh Freedom or for

1:11:06

slavery uh I have made my decision I had no

1:11:11

choice I’ve always liked that line because it embodies my spirit I have

1:11:16

made my decision as if he had a choice as if it were his will

1:11:26

semicolon I had no choice well if you had no choice then you didn’t make a

1:11:31

decision and that would have been my whole life on the one hand I chose to do what I did you know

1:11:40

theoretically I could have become a banker but even as I theoretically even

1:11:47

as theoretically it was an act of will it was a choice I know that in light of what my

1:11:56

parents endured during World War II I had no choice it wasn’t the decision I

1:12:03

made it wasn’t an act of will a decision I had no

1:12:08

choice and um so speaking personally

1:12:13

when I said the human Constitution Rebels at doing

1:12:19

nothing in the face of such death and destruction

1:12:25

I think most normal people will say you know what maybe I should go to that

1:12:32

demonstration or do something all right so so nice to talk to Mr Aaron and Miss

1:12:39

Katie and thank you Norman on behalf of our audience we’re all very grateful for you so thank you

1:12:47

yeah thanks so much for listening to and watching useful idiots for extended episodes bonus content and our weekly

1:12:54

Thursday Throwdown episode please subscribe at useful idiots podcast.com support the show for free by subscribing

1:13:02

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1:13:09

also follow us on Twitter at usful idiot pod thanks for supporting Independent Media we’ll see you next time

1:13:16

[Music]

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On Palestine: Experts on Israel’s destruction of Gaza in 2024

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiiaNh_Q78M)

The international community has spent 2024 reluctant to bring an end to Israel’s levelling of Gaza and to push for Netanyahu’s extraction to the Hague on charges of crimes against humanity. Throughout 2024 we spoke to journalists, academics and personalities with expertise on the situation in Palestine. Here are some of the highlights. In order of appearance:

Norman Finkelstein: Political Scientist

(—)

Transkripzioa:

0:00

even as I recognize like the abolitionists that Horrors

0:07

occurred I for one maybe because I’m too

0:13

close to the facts I know in every

0:20

detail what had been done to the people of Gaza before October 7 I’m too close

0:27

to it my inner ride each time I read another human

0:34

rights report I squint and Flinch when I

0:41

think targeting amputees this country is completely mad

0:51

it’s lunatic and this is not after October 7 I’m talking about March 2018

1:00

their hatred their loathing their contempt for these

1:07

Palestinians it’s like you know when I was a kid I don’t claim to be a saint

1:12

I’m not I’m very far from it if you knew my flaws they would frighten and terrify you I remember as a kid one of the games

1:20

we used to play listen to me we took what was called the magnifying glass

1:26

they were much more popular back then uh it’s the glass that bends the light into

1:32

a beam and our fun was to take the magnifying glass bend the light to burn

1:40

to a crisp ants that was kid what kids did they burned to a crisp ants it was fun

1:47

watching the ant pills you know just implode from the pressure of the light

1:55

beam and that’s the Israelis with the

2:00

Palestinians the fun of targeting

2:07

amputees it’s the truth that’s why when everybody now is shocked by the videos

2:13

of the Israelis posting as they incinerate houses or kill Palestinians

2:21

and how joyful they are and how euphoric they are I’m not surprised at all that’s

2:28

what I’ve been reading for years yeah no Norm can I ask I mean you’ve

2:33

used there’s a couple of words you’ve used over the course so far of this conversation you called the Israeli

2:40

government satanic uh lunatic which I know as well it’s a reference to a piece

2:46

you recently published on your substack Samson and Cassandra where you sort of made that argument you know another

2:53

piece um you recently wrote on there when it’s okay to Nuke a country um and

3:00

sort of I think we’ll talk about Iran slightly later on so I’ll just leave leave that for a second but you know I

3:06

would just I would just say those descriptions those acts you know when it’s okay to Nuka country saying that

3:12

it’s satanic saying that it’s a lunatic Nation I just I know it’s a slightly clumsy um

3:20

comparison to make the one that I’m about to but you know you are Jewish your parents were in

3:27

concentration camps and I wonder if you about sort of the fact that the the

3:33

impact I should say that rhetoric like that can have whether it’s about you know fueling a rise in anti-Semitism or

3:40

opening a door for people to be anti-semitic in their in their criticism

3:46

I just wonder if you how you’ve rationalized those those two things with

3:52

with particularly the sort of yes the language that you’re using to talk about the state of

3:57

Israel well look Ali I’ll treat you as somebody I know and not try to put on an

4:03

air and estrange one from the other I’ll give

4:08

you an honest answer I would say there was a point in my

4:14

life where my self-identification as

4:19

Jewish would have caused me to hesitate before uttering statements or

4:27

descriptives of the kind I just did but and I’m here I’m speaking

4:34

with complete cander and I think with utter

4:41

sincerity and I know what I’m about to say will probably surprise you I don’t

4:47

see Israel as a Jewish State it’s a type the Israeli type is

4:54

not the type I grew up with as a Jew as a Jew growing up being Jewish meant

5:02

being cerebral be yes it meant being cerebral

5:07

we took great pride can you imagine the pride Jews took in the fact that the four Great uh figures of the modern

5:16

world Einstein Freud Marx and someone include Jesus we

5:25

Jewish we surge with pride at that fact do you know the kind of Pride we took

5:33

that 25% of the Nobel laurates are Jewish even though they

5:38

represent 0.00000000 two% of the world population

5:43

yes the life of the Mind loomed large being Jewish it also

5:51

meant being creative and creative also with a kind

5:57

of a sham I hard to translate it means kind of

6:06

weakling uh aspect so for us a Jew meant

6:11

Woody Allen it did for us growing up or France cfco with the big ears you know

6:18

that that was being a Jew lining up along a perimeter fence

6:24

and targeting double amputees sorry that has nothing to do do with a

6:30

Jew or Jews as I came as I grew up

6:37

understanding that notion so I don’t feel Israel as a Jewish State I don’t I

6:42

think it’s a lunatic state so it doesn’t at this point in my life I don’t feel

6:48

the kind of conflict that you personal conflict that

6:55

you uh allude to however I do

7:00

recognize that Israel calling itself a Jewish State and carrying on as it does

7:10

is going to increase the danger of

7:15

anti-Semitism but that’s a problem in my opinion first of

7:21

all created by the state of Israel I would much rather it not call

7:28

itself you know Israel the uh the nation state of the Jewish people I would

7:34

rather call itself Israel the nation state of the lunatic people or Misha we have in Yiddish the expression Misha

7:41

which means crazy so the nation stayed of the Misha pre that would I think um

7:48

diminish the prospects of anti-Semitism increasing as Israel carries on and then

7:54

the other side is fortunately we have reached a point where a large number of

8:01

Jews have to use an expression I heard a few months ago have checked out of Hotel

8:08

Zion uh which is to say they don’t want to have anything to do with the state and that’s a good thing I’ve thought a

8:14

lot about the one state solution I’ve done a lot of work recently thinking about B nationalism what would a

oooooo

ADAM@AdameMedia

We Basques do need a real Basque independent State in the Western Pyrenees, just a democratic lay or secular state, with all the formal characteristics of any independent State: Central Bank, Treasury, proper currency, out of the European Distopia and faraway from NAT0, maybe being a BRICS partner…

Ikus Euskal Herriaren independentzia eta Mikel Torka

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MMT: Modern Monetary Theory

Understanding how money works so that we can address climate change easily and prosperously plus address AI’s impact on humanity.

Members: https://x.com/i/communities/1672597800385921024/members