GAZA: Su etenaren inguruan (6)

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Israeli Soldier’s Explosive Tell-All: “Palestinians are Right to Resist”

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxJd88xkBU)

In a rare, candid conversation, Abby Martin interviews a former Israeli Army combat soldier who served as an occupier in Palestine’s Hebron City. Eran Efrati spent years as a sergeant and combat soldier in the Israeli military, but has since become an outspoken critic of the occupation of Palestine and Israeli apartheid.

Efrati gives explosive testimony on the reality of his service and explains how war crimes are institutionalized, as well as how systematic the oppression against Palestinians really is in a war of conquest that will no-doubt be accelerated under the Trump Administration.

Transkripzioa:

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with the Trump Administration in power

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Israeli politicians have been

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celebrating this new opportunity ramping

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up settlement projects some of these are

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even financed by Trump’s own son-in-law

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rumored to be the president’s pick to

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broker so-called peace in the region can

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I reveal Jared how long we’ve known you

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while these illegal settlements grow

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into Palestinian Villages some are built

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directly in the middle of thriving

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cultural centers such as Hebron one of

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the most hyper militarized cities in the

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world when I was in Hebron I was shocked

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by how aggressively the police state

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imposed an apartheid system

1:00

all of the residents I talked to had

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horror stories of Life under brutal

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occupation sometimes Israeli soldiers

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themselves descent even in the face of

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very severe repercussions one of whom is

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aan afati who was stationed in hibron

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during his time in the Israeli Army

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since leaving the military after years

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as a combat Soldier arrti has dedicated

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his life to documenting Israeli war

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crimes and fighting the apartheid system

1:26

Iran you went from being a soldier in

1:28

the IDF to being a very out spoken

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critic of both the occupation and

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continued takeover of Palestine what

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made you go through such a profound

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transformation well uh it didn’t

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something that happened immediately

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obviously growing up in Israel you know

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you ask me what was my role in the

1:47

military I’m not sure that my role

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started with my enlisted I think my role

1:51

started when I was about five and I

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realized that my father is putting

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uniform and going out to Lebanon uh as a

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reserve soldier that’s the first time I

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felt that I’m a part of the military uh

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the next time was in uh you know

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kindergarten when soldiers came in to

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tell us about uh the independent War uh

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just after the Holocaust day memorial um

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the next time will be when I was 16 and

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uh I will get my first draft letter and

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in this draft letter it will be written

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that I am a property of the military

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this is something that every kid in

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Israel go through when you getting into

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the military system in the end you’re

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already so much ined

2:30

inside the military the military is a

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part of your identity is as much you as

2:34

you are Israeli or Jewish for that

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matter in Israel and going into the

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military I was expecting to be a

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manifestation of me just in uniform uh

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protecting my country protecting my

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family I grew up on hearing the stories

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from aitz of my grandma so my uh

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mother’s side my grandma and grandpa was

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the only survivors from their family

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from the Holocaust uh all all of my

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Grandma’s family were killed in aitz the

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story is from my grandpa that was also

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the only Survivor from his family from

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the Holocaust and from the other side my

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grandpa and grandma from My Father’s

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Side grew up on hearing this their

3:14

stories about Jerusalem and what it is

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to grow up without Freedom under the

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British mandate for me being in the

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military is to protect them and to make

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sure that our Life Will Go On as in

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Freedom and you know in good uh well

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um I went through seven months of boot

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camp and in the end of the seven month I

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found myself in hion uh this the only

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city that have a settlement in the

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middle of the city so getting into the

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Kon uh one of the first things that I

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had to do was protect a Jewish holiday

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and my job is to put on cew

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180,000 Palestinians so settlers for

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throughout the West Bank and Israel

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Jewish settlers could come coming to Kon

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and celebrate so there’s thousands and

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thousands of Israelis and Jewish

4:04

settlers from across the West band

4:06

coming to celebrate and the only way to

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keep them protected is to make sure that

4:11

not no Palestinian is living his home so

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literally one of my first task was to

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roam the streets and make sure

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Palestinians understand they’re going

4:20

into their home and they cannot leave

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until a second notice until the next

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time we’re coming in and the first time

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was like a movie you know we we bir in

4:29

into the city with our guns in our hands

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and our uniform and vest With Grenades

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and uh six packs of ammunition and just

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screaming cew and you see the chaos you

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see the people just running from place

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to place closing down their shops

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running home because wherever you are

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when the curfew starts this is where

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you’re stuck and you cannot go anywhere

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else so you better be at home when we’re

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starting to come the curfew now the

4:54

official orders uh to anyone who breaks

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curfew is shoot to kill I never did that

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I never met anyone who should to kill uh

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in this process of a cew but that was

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the orders and they knew it pretty well

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they knew what they need to do uh this

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feeling of power uh at once came as a

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big confusion to me I think I wasn’t

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clear um if I’m enjoying the power of

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controlling all of these people or if I

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don’t understand why kids look at me

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frightened why are they running away

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when I’m walking into the street before

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my service I work as an educator I love

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kids so I think I was very confused on

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why a a kid will find me uh scary you

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know I I realize now in P in perspective

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it got to do something with the fact

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that I have my boots on my uniform my

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helmet uh my six packs of ammunition my

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two hand grenades my M16 in my hand but

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I didn’t realize that at the time and I

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and I really couldn’t understand that um

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and I think in a very rapid paste I

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realize that my job is actually to

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maintain an aparte system very uh very

6:11

early on I understood that the rights

6:13

that the Jewish settlers have are not

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the rights that the Palestinians have I

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understood that I cannot touch a Jewish

6:18

settler if he is attacking a Palestinian

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the best I can do is call a local police

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department to come handle it like I

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would do at home in Jerusalem so these

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Jewish settlers that live in Kon are

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living under the same rights that I live

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in in Jerusalem but the Palestinian next

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to them next house over next building

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over sometimes next apartment over lives

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under my rule my military rule and I can

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do whatever I want with him I can take

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his home as a temporary base for a few

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hours to a few days to a few weeks I can

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decide that I’m arresting the people of

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the house and tying them up to defense

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of my

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base um if you will get in order to

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demolish their home or just lock their

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front door and don’t let them out into

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the street their house is on a street

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that only Jewish settlers can walk on

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and Palestinian cannot so they have to

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walk through Windows to yards into the

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other side into the kaso of Kon I think

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realizing all of that in a very very

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early stage in my

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service helped me understood that

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someone was lying to me along the way I

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didn’t feel like I’m protecting anyone I

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didn’t feel like I’m help helping anyone

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feeling more safe I feel like I’m

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terrorizing people I feel like for the

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first time in my life the boundaries

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between good and bad that I learned as a

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kid and obviously I learned that I’m on

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the good side uh was broken I felt like

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I am the terrorist and my job was

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literally to scare people so they cannot

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think about acting against the Israeli

7:53

settlers or the is military that was

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actually our defined mission to make

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sure that to instill fear in the hearts

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of Palestinians in Kon and that’s

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exactly what we

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did I think heon is a really um intense

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example of of apartheid obviously like

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you just said the settlements in the

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middle of the city it’s extremely

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visible you have the cage streets the

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ghost town it’s it’s horrifying why did

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you speak up and why did you do what you

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did knowing that you would suffer such

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repercussions and potentially be banned

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from returning back to your country

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um well growing up in Israel like I said

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I believe that I was the good guy I mean

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the story that all of us are being told

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all around the world is that the the

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very clear difference between good and

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bad people are there you learn about the

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Holocaust growing up I saw my grandma

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screaming in the middle of the night

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memories from aitz in our mind memories

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to our

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family um I knew knew that I am going to

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be a good human being you know in the

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age of uh 15 16 I began being almost

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obsessed with trying to understand the

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Nazi side in the Holocaust uh not only

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to hear the stories of the victims of

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the Jewish victims and any other victims

9:18

from the Holocaust but to try to

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understand how can a uh Nazi soldiers

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get up in the morning give his kids a

9:25

kiss his wife a hug and go out to the

9:28

camps and do his job I just couldn’t

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understand that and when I got into the

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occupied

9:34

territories uh for the first time I

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understood how can there be a

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contradiction inside yourself as a human

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being you could do your job and be a one

9:45

person at home be a loving caring uh you

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know boyfriend or a son or brother and

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in the same time hold people under a

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regime so oppressed that people are

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dying not from only your bullets but the

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amount of calories uh being entered into

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their territory like in Gaza from

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depression or

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sickness uh this realization during my

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time as a soldier uh of me on the right

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side of History gave me this urge that

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something have to be done something have

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to be spoken understanding that nothing

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is really changing from inside that you

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have to step outside and start start

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talking with the world about what’s

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going on uh and that’s the only way you

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can live in a place not only for

10:35

Palestinians but for me as well you know

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I don’t want to live in an ethnocracy I

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don’t want to live in an only Jewish

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state that values a privileged Jewish

10:45

life on every other life this urges me

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to understand that I want a my kids to

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grow up in a place when they don’t have

10:53

to oppress anyone they don’t have to be

10:55

soldiers uh I guess that’s what pushed

10:58

me to do what I’m doing your

11:00

Humanity let’s talk about your time um

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after getting out of the military and

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then you went through a series uh

11:07

through the West Bank interviewing

11:09

soldiers getting their testimony talk

11:11

about some of your experiences there

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that cemented your belief system now and

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um open your mind a little bit more I

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think after I left the military I was

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still under the impression that the

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things that I was going through or my

11:25

personal uh experience I understood that

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I do not believe in the things that I

11:30

was doing I understood that I was lied

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to but I still didn’t had the conviction

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that what we’re doing is on a large

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scale and leing the military and

11:41

starting interviewing soldiers uh really

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I think made me understand that there’s

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a systematic

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oppression uh that is taking place in

11:51

the occupied territories Iran let’s talk

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about El Rosaria the soldier who just

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got convicted of manslaughter he

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executed an unarmed Palestinian man

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laying in the street of course in Hebron

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on camera uh Israel of course is touting

12:05

this as accountability right Justice uh

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what is your reaction to the verdict and

12:12

yeah just your the case in general I

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think the aora zarya case had to be

12:17

understand by a few contexts the first

12:19

one is the context of uh Israeli

12:22

military practice of executions and

12:25

targeted killing and also confirming a

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kill what the learya did on the

12:29

Palestinian in K are all practices that

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are alive in the military system in the

12:36

even police system or mad it’s illegal

12:39

to continue to do an execution it’s the

12:41

middle of the previous decade in the

12:43

2000s but then something very

12:45

interesting

12:46

start um I am in my previous role as a

12:49

researcher into the Israel military are

12:51

taking testimonies from many soldiers uh

12:54

and one of the soldiers I’m reaching to

12:57

is a soldier from semi- Elite unit

13:00

called in Hebrew duv Dean Cherry in

13:03

English and he’s telling me a story

13:04

about how uh he serving after this role

13:08

from the after this new rule from the

13:10

Supreme Court has been mandate and they

13:12

cannot do targeting killing anymore and

13:16

how their officer is gathering the unit

13:18

together and tell them we’re going to go

13:20

out tonight to capture this person is

13:23

highly dangerous what we’re going to do

13:25

is we’re going to come in five or six

13:27

people’s unit into their home home in

13:29

the middle of the night break in quietly

13:32

go up to his bedroom go into his bed and

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put a gun into his head now if he just

13:39

wake up and surrender we’re taking him

13:41

into the base but if he scream you

13:44

should him in the head if he lift his

13:47

blanket you shoot him in the head if he

13:49

lifts his hands or legs or trying to do

13:52

any movement you shoot him in the head

13:54

now because we understand as rational

13:56

human beings that no human being can

13:58

wake up in the middle of of the night

13:59

with a gun into his head and not scream

14:02

or move we understand this orders as an

14:05

execution orders that bypass the supreme

14:08

court order uh and instead of saying

14:10

we’re going to execute this person

14:12

they’re saying we’re going to arrest

14:13

this person but if we feel there’s some

14:15

kind of danger maybe he have a gun in

14:17

his bed maybe he will scream for help we

14:19

execute him so execution is something

14:22

that is very much alive I continue to

14:23

interview dozens of this Cherry unit

14:26

that tells the same story about

14:28

different cases but the same exact

14:30

practice in the occupied territories

14:32

they knew that this is what they’re

14:34

supposed to do they knew that they were

14:35

going into homes in the middle of the

14:37

night to execute people in October 2015

14:40

the latest intifa is starting and even

14:43

the official roles of not executing

14:47

human beings are going off the window

14:49

from the Prime Minister into ministers

14:52

into media people everybody is talking

14:54

about it from left to right about you

14:56

shoot to kill if you see a girl with

14:59

scissors next to you you shoot to kill

15:02

executions are very much alive in the

15:05

Israeli uh uh military the Israeli

15:07

police the Israeli discourse people are

15:09

calling for executions people are

15:11

calling for not only executions on you

15:14

know what they call terrorist or

15:16

resistant uh uh people Palestinians that

15:19

are running at you but they’re calling

15:21

for

15:22

Revenge um and when theorya doing what

15:27

he does he doing it after heard that

15:30

this specific order of executions every

15:33

what they call a terrorist from every

15:36

section of the Israel Society we

15:38

wouldn’t be talking about El oari if the

15:41

execution wasn’t on film let’s be honest

15:43

I mean like you said this is this is

15:45

commonplace this is systematic it’s

15:47

institutionalized however I I I do want

15:50

to talk about how even before he was

15:51

charged with manslaughter it was a slap

15:54

on the wrist at the beginning I don’t

15:55

know if there was just International

15:56

pressure that that mounted at a certain

15:58

point where they felt like they had to

15:59

take the investigation forward but even

16:01

then it was a very stark contrast

16:03

between how right-wing Israelis reacted

16:06

to just a house arrest verdict um than

16:09

let’s say people hear when a police

16:11

officer shoots and executes an unarmed

16:14

black man and and usually you have

16:15

protests in the street against the

16:17

police trying to get accountability

16:18

there in Israel it seemed like there was

16:20

mass rallies in support of alaria you

16:23

know of course it’s not

16:25

surprising Israel is selling this idea

16:29

of the soldiers are more important than

16:31

anything the soldiers are more important

16:33

than the life of Palestinians not only

16:35

the life of soldiers the soldiers

16:37

identity uh you know security feelings

16:40

are more important than a Palestinian

16:42

life the

16:44

easiness uh the comfortable of people

16:47

going out to the street and defending

16:50

every case of mans slaughtering that was

16:53

captured on tape that is clear that his

16:56

life is not in danger you know that

16:59

contradict everything that we are being

17:02

told and yet Israelis are saying in a

17:05

very clear voice not only that we don’t

17:08

believe in that not only that we will

17:11

oppress Palestinian and will act as much

17:13

as you know do whatever we want but in a

17:16

very specific way saying don’t uh

17:19

confuse us with idea of moral or right

17:23

or wrong whatever soldiers do in the

17:25

occupied territories are right whatever

17:28

we’re doing is the correct thing I

17:31

wanted you to talk specifically about

17:32

the culture within the Israeli military

17:34

that Fosters anti-arab sentiment and

17:38

racism essentially yes so I think the

17:41

system you know is not only inside the

17:45

military it’s it’s like like I said

17:47

before that’s actually what being an

17:49

Israeli means being an Israeli growing

17:53

up in the Israeli educational

17:55

departments you understand that all the

17:58

the Arabs hates you that they’re

18:00

actually in a way the conation of the

18:04

biblical Amal or uh or Hitler you know

18:08

that everybody there want to throw you

18:10

into the sea this is what you’re growing

18:12

up with and you really believe in that I

18:15

mean going into the military you’re

18:16

already going so full of hate and fear

18:20

at the same time that you don’t need

18:23

much to be uh very aggressive violent

18:27

and and racist toward Palestinians they

18:30

see the Palestinian women and the

18:31

Palestinian men as

18:34

subhuman uh the occupied territories are

18:37

like an ex territory when those human

18:40

beings are not considered to be human

18:42

beings this is a process that you’re

18:44

starting a very early age being enforced

18:46

inside your boot camp and later on when

18:49

you’re going into your service when you

18:51

do not see human beings in front of you

18:54

do not believe their sorrow do not

18:56

believe their smiles do not believe

18:58

their feelings they are

19:00

subhuman but they look just like you I

19:03

mean there’s so many Arab Jews it’s

19:06

incredible like yourself yeah and I

19:09

think that the the Arab Jews in Israel

19:10

are probably the most tragic story in

19:13

the entire story of Zionism after the

19:16

Palestinians you know and it’s not being

19:18

talked enough obviously inside Israel

19:19

Society or in the world the MRA Jew the

19:23

Arab Jews that came around the years of

19:26

50 and onward into Israel uh some came

19:31

by choice came by some came by force but

19:34

they didn’t came to a count that was

19:36

theirs came only about two years after

19:38

Israel was already gave out most most of

19:41

the land into the European people and

19:43

they understood that they cannot hold

19:45

the territory alone they need more

19:47

people on the ground to fight off

19:49

Palestinians or Palestinian refugees if

19:51

they will come back and then they went

19:53

off and brought most of the Arab Jews

19:55

and put them in the most terrible places

19:58

in Israel on the borders on the borders

20:00

with Egypt or Jordan or Lebanon and

20:03

Syria we put them at buffer zones to

20:06

protect us from Palestinians some of

20:09

them came in the Sens uh the Zionist

20:12

organizations sends delegations into

20:14

this Arab countries uh and called the

20:17

Jews there to come into Israel the

20:19

Jewish homeland many of them didn’t want

20:20

to many of them like in Iraq or Egypt

20:23

had a good life or in Morocco and wanted

20:25

to stay they didn’t know what will be

20:27

the destiny of this new country that

20:29

understood that there’s very much likely

20:31

that a lot of Wars will go on there they

20:33

felt protected in those countries and

20:35

they said no and the Zionist

20:36

organizations send another delegations

20:39

into some of these countries of people

20:41

Desy as Arabs from those countries that

20:44

terrorize those people to try to force

20:46

them to come into Israel they were born

20:49

synagogues we have testimonies today

20:51

that talks about how they ran after

20:53

people in the street and beat them down

20:56

as so-called Arabs from Morocco from

20:58

from uh Egypt or Iraq trying to scare

21:01

them and immediately after that more

21:03

people from the Zionist movement would

21:05

come and say you see the only safe place

21:07

you have is Israel you have to come now

21:09

and after they came they were being sent

21:11

into the most uh uh disgusting forms of

21:16

uh settlement for the newcomers from

21:19

those Arab countries being spray from

21:22

DDT uh with with uh gas trying to clean

21:27

them up before the joining into the uh

21:30

ashkanazi the European kids to play with

21:32

them they were separated and segregated

21:35

for years that was not their country and

21:37

it’s still not their country and what

21:39

they had to do to start to assimilate

21:41

thems inside this new country was to

21:43

make sure that everybody understood that

21:45

they’re actually not Arabs they look

21:46

like Arabs they talk Arabic but they’re

21:49

not Arabs they’re Jewish because you can

21:50

be an American Jew and you can be a

21:52

European Jew but you cannot be an Arab

21:54

Jew in Israel and they erase their

21:57

identity

21:59

and they starting to form what we know

22:01

today as the most extreme right in

22:03

Israel they are the extreme right

22:05

because they have to solidify themsel as

22:08

the most loyal citizens of the States

22:12

you hear this as a cycle of violence

22:13

though and every time I bring up you

22:15

know especially being on the ground in

22:16

the West Bank visiting the dapa family

22:18

or who’s left of it um you know whenever

22:21

you bring up these these

22:23

horrifying stories and accounts of

22:25

Terror on behalf of the Israeli settlers

22:27

a lot of people just say what about the

22:28

stabbing attacks what about you know

22:31

what about the terrorist attacks on

22:32

behalf of Palestinians and it’s painted

22:33

as a as a equal fight as a cycle of

22:37

violence and then you have um the the

22:39

truck attack that just happened in

22:41

Jerusalem as a former Soldier how do you

22:44

view these attacks how do you view the

22:45

stabbings especially when they are

22:47

directed at

22:49

soldiers well as an ex Soldier uh I

22:53

learned very personally that if you will

22:57

not respect exist and you can expect

23:01

resistance and this is how people resist

23:06

uh Israel as a state like to use the the

23:10

idea that Palestinians only understand

23:13

force or power but the truth of the

23:15

matter is that Israelis only understand

23:18

power and force every other attempt from

23:21

Palestinians to try to negotiate this

23:24

situation in a diplomatic way was uh

23:27

counter by more attacks more oppression

23:32

uh and more occupation more stealing of

23:34

the land more destroying of homes more

23:37

settlements being built we decided to

23:39

call uh going into the UN a diplomatic

23:42

terrorism and to go into the IC uh you

23:46

know International terrorism we

23:49

basically describe every form of

23:52

resistant as terrorism because the sole

23:55

idea of the

23:57

occupation is is not to be safe the sole

24:01

idea is to create an ethnically cleansed

24:05

uh piece of land only for Jewish people

24:08

with Palestinian workers of course some

24:10

Palestinians can stay and do stuff for

24:12

us but this is our land what people

24:15

maybe don’t understand is that Israel is

24:18

creating the conditions

24:20

in uh the situation of constantly having

24:24

to protect yourself we’re creating this

24:27

situation by oppressive oppressing

24:30

millions of people into do a a phase

24:34

well they have no other choice by resist

24:38

so many of these people lost a family

24:40

member uh had been to prison or lost

24:43

someone in prison and understood that

24:46

nothing could be changed because the

24:48

truth is that Israel do not hear the

24:51

diplomacy Israel do not hear the call of

24:53

Palestinian for equality what we are

24:56

seeing in Palestine is what a lot of

24:58

people like to describe as the most uh

25:00

complicated political situation of our

25:03

time is probably the most simple uh

25:06

situation political situation over time

25:08

it’s a situation about equality it’s

25:10

amazing that you say that Iran because

25:12

this is painted as the most complex the

25:14

most hard to solve uh they’ve been

25:17

fighting over there for thousands of

25:19

years you know you hear these these

25:21

things but really it really does come

25:23

down to basic equality in humanity um

25:27

would you say that you support support

25:28

the right of Palestinians to fight their

25:30

occupiers absolutely I support the right

25:33

of every human being uh under an

25:36

oppressive military rule to resist this

25:39

military rule by any mean uh possible uh

25:42

I do not believe that Israel have a

25:44

right to occupy millions of human beings

25:47

without every decent uh human simple

25:51

basic human rights uh for the name and I

25:54

do not believe that Israel would change

25:56

on its own at no point in history there

25:59

was a a state or a power that had the

26:02

power to control over other human beings

26:05

and benefit from it and just decided to

26:07

let go of this power by its own it was

26:10

always forced on them by the resistance

26:12

of the people underneath them all the

26:14

intervention of other forces around the

26:16

world and unfortunately uh I as I do

26:20

support the Palestinian right to resist

26:21

in any way I do not believe that their

26:23

resistance is enough I do believe that

26:26

the rest of the world have to interfere

26:28

and what’s going on in Palestine there’s

26:30

nothing else that we can do except for

26:33

giving all the Palestinians equal rights

26:36

and starting a new state a new uh

26:40

equality system for all human beings on

26:42

the ground

26:44

[Music]

oooooo

@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

ooo

Why is land in the West Bank being sold off to US citizens? | The Take

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN02i8dGWOI)

Expansions of illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank are proceeding at a record pace, and in the US town of Teaneck, New Jersey, some residents are organizing to fight real estate sales to American Jews. It’s set off accusations of anti-Semitism and ratcheted up tension in the small community. What’s next for Teaneck? In this episode: 

• Rich Siegel, Teaneck resident

Episode credits:

This episode was produced by Marcos Bartolomé, Duha Mossad, Hagir Saleh, Cole van Miltenburg and our host, Kevin Hirten. It was edited by Sarí El-Khalili.

Our sound designer is Alex Roldan. Our video editors are Hisham Abu Salah and Mohannad al-Melhem. Alexandra Locke is The Take’s executive producer. Ney Alvarez is Al Jazeera’s head of audio.

Transkripzioa:

0:02

Al Jazeera Podcasts.

0:04

Today, Americans house hunting in illegal settlements in the West Bank.

0:09

That land does not belong to them.

0:11

It belongs to Palestinian families that’s been there for generations.

0:14

US law says these Jewish-only real estate fairs are illegal.

0:18

So why aren’t authorities putting a stop to it?

0:21

I’m Kevin Hirten, and this is The Take.

0:30

A perfect and pastoral location. That’s how real estate agency Keller Williams Israel

0:36

advertised a house on its website, only it wasn’t in Israel.

0:40

It was in the occupied West Bank.

0:42

Since October the 7th, Israel’s government has accelerated the approval

0:46

of several illegal settlement projects in occupied East Jerusalem.

0:51

They’re going in and carrying out conflict and war in Gaza.

0:54

They are carrying out brutal raids in the occupied West Bank.

0:58

And while the world’s attention is elsewhere, they are scooping up more and more Palestinian land

1:03

and claiming it as their own, gross violations of international law.

1:07

Israeli settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are illegal under international law.

1:13

Yet that’s not stopping Israelis from selling homes there to American Jews.

1:17

Recently, things boiled over in Teaneck, New Jersey.

1:32

There, synagogues are hosting real estate fairs, encouraging members

1:36

to buy property in Israel and occupied West Bank settlements.

1:40

They call it redemption of the land or coming back home.

1:45

For generations, people have yearned to return to our homeland.

1:48

Now it’s finally happening.

1:50

Our people are finally coming home.

1:53

Whether you’re coming on Aliyah or looking for an investment

1:56

property, you are about to fulfill a lifelong dream.

1:59

My Zionist brainwashing was so thorough

2:03

that I still believed all of the lies that I had been told.

2:07

Rich Siegel has been fighting to stop illegal settlement activity.

2:14

I am a freelance musician and music teacher,

2:17

and sometimes I’m a political activist.

2:20

I’m in Teaneck, New Jersey.

2:23

So, okay, Rich, that’s where I want to start.

2:25

Tell me about Teaneck. What’s it like?

2:28

Teaneck is actually a nice place to live.

2:32

It’s an inner suburb of New York City.

2:35

It’s a very mixed town.

2:37

There are people from a lot of different

2:40

backgrounds that live here.

2:44

However, there is a very large modern Orthodox

2:49

Jewish population, and they basically serve as a pipeline of support

2:56

for the settlement movement on the West Bank

2:59

and for right wing Zionism in general.

3:04

So they are a presence here.

3:09

And, a disturbing one, I would add.

3:12

So, Rich, you’re in New Jersey.

3:15

I am more than 5000 miles away from the Middle East.

3:17

Yet you find yourself in a pitched battle over Israeli settlements in the West Bank.

3:22

So how did your little town get involved in all of this?

3:27

Well, I should preface my answer

3:30

by saying that the American Jewish community

3:35

and our government generally is the reason that Israel exists.

3:40

Communities like Teaneck

3:43

are very active in supporting Israel and right wing Zionist communities,

3:48

like the one that exists in Teaneck, are additionally involved

3:54

in bolstering up the West Bank settlement movement.

3:58

And so I think it’s fair to say that

4:03

the conflict exists here as well and is perhaps

4:07

rooted here as much as it’s rooted there.

4:11

And so the, the, the physical distance

4:15

is not as relevant as you might think.

4:20

So in terms of this story here,

4:22

when did that first kick off with these property fairs?

4:27

Well I first became aware

4:30

that there were real estate events here in Teaneck back in 2007.

4:36

And I only became aware

4:38

because I happened to be reading the Jewish newspapers here

4:42

and saw this ad for this real estate event and

4:46

investigated the event a little bit.

4:50

And found out that, wow, they are actually selling West Bank settlement homes directly

4:56

to Jews here in Teaneck, New Jersey.

5:00

And I said this has to be illegal, and it’s certainly immoral.

5:04

And, I have to try to stop it, and I did.

5:08

So that was the first time that I organized a demonstration.

5:11

I tried to stop it in other ways.

5:13

I mean, I made calls to everyone from the local police to the FBI,

5:17

and I really found out that absolutely nobody was interested.

5:21

So I organized a demonstration, and that’s the first time I did that.

5:24

And they’ve been going on really continuously ever since.

5:29

The difference is, is that now people are noticing.

5:34

Now people are noticing a lot more,

5:37

and they’re noticing more because they’re noticing the issue more

5:40

since the October 7th incident

5:44

and the genocide that’s been happening ever since.

5:47

And they’re noticing a lot more because I gave a talk

5:50

in front of the Teaneck Town Council back in February,

5:54

and that little three minute talk went viral.

5:57

What this real estate event is going to do is it’s going to fan the flames.

6:03

If it goes forward, there will be a demonstration.

6:07

I know there’s going to be a demonstration because I’m going to organize it.

6:11

Can you tell me a little more detail about these fairs?

6:15

What are they like?

6:16

Who’s putting them on?

6:17

Who’s attending them?

6:20

Well, actually, I can, because I went to one undercover.

6:23

And that one was not here in New Jersey.

6:27

It was in Woodmere, Long Island, in New York,

6:31

which is, another community that has a significant Orthodox

6:36

Zionist community.

6:40

And I went to that event, undercover,

6:45

pretending to be, a potential customer, a potential real estate buyer.

6:51

And I went with a female friend who pretended to be my wife.

6:54

And we went as an Orthodox Jewish couple.

6:58

And, we were invited into the basement of a synagogue,

7:03

and, we were led, there were a series of booths where there were sales representatives,

7:10

giving talks to different customers.

7:13

So we were led to a booth where a sales representative gave us a sales pitch

7:18

about available real estate, and we pretended to be interested

7:23

in a home, in a condominium,

7:26

in a West Bank settlement.

7:28

And, we were given a sales pitch about that.

7:32

I’m quite sure we could have signed on the dotted line.

7:36

And that’s relevant because people who are defending these,

7:42

events are saying that the real estate isn’t actually for sale.

7:46

It’s just information that’s being given.

7:48

In my experience, they’re being sold,

7:52

at the point where we could have sign on the dotted line, my fake wife

7:56

and I produced Palestinian flags out of my backpack and said, this is why we’re here.

8:01

And we were promptly kicked out and,

8:06

the, and they threatened to sue me, which they never did.

8:10

What is it specifically that offends you so much about these fairs and what

8:14

why do you think they’re so immoral and maybe illegal?

8:19

Well, maybe illegal.

8:23

We can verify that they’re absolutely illegal.

8:27

An attorney prepared papers, a cease and desist order

8:32

and delivered it to the Jewish community here in Teaneck.

8:36

Delivered it to a rabbi here who has positioned himself as a leader in the Jewish community.

8:42

And I’m informed that in these legal papers,

8:46

22 laws have been cited that are being violated.

8:50

And those laws include New Jersey state law,

8:54

American federal law, and international law.

8:57

So three categories of law, 22 laws, all told,

9:01

are being violated by these

9:04

real estate events.

9:07

So, the work I’m doing here is to expose

9:13

illegal and immoral activity,

9:16

promoting illegal West Bank settlements here in New Jersey.

9:20

And in addition to promoting illegal West Bank settlements.

9:24

It’s illegal for them to sell even the real estate

9:28

that’s within Israel, because most of that real estate

9:32

is for sale for Jews only.

9:35

Yeah, and we have laws here

9:39

that prevent what used to be known as red-lined real estate.

9:43

I mean, back in the bad old days of racial segregation in the United States.

9:47

Restricted covenants.

9:49

Yeah, realtors had maps with red lines, and the red lines indicated,

9:53

you know, on this side of the red line, it’s only for sale for white people.

9:57

Okay, you can’t do that anymore.

9:59

Well, that’s exactly what’s happening with all or most of the real estate

10:03

that’s being sold at these events.

10:05

Even the real estate that’s not the West Bank settlements,

10:08

the real estate that’s within green line Israel,

10:13

a lot of that is for sale for Jews only.

10:15

Maybe all of it.

10:17

Rich, what was that feeling like when you knew that you, a Jewish guy from New Jersey,

10:22

were just seconds away from signing your name on a line and could have access

10:25

to land in the West Bank,

10:28

land that is fought over and has been fought over

10:31

for centuries.

10:33

Not for centuries, not at all for centuries.

10:36

For decades.

10:37

Yeah, decades.

10:39

That’s a really important point.

10:40

And, I’ll answer your question, but first, I want to address what you just said, because

10:46

Zionists want everybody to believe

10:48

that this is an ancient conflict and it’s not.

10:51

I mean, Muslims and Christians and Jews

10:54

all lived together on that land for many, many centuries.

10:58

It’s only since the Zionist movement was initiated

11:02

by European Ashkenazi Jews, starting with Theodor Herzl

11:06

in 1895 with his book Der Judenstaat, that set this off.

11:10

So it is the conflict that’s more than a century old at this point,

11:17

really intensely 76 years old.

11:22

But, it’s absolutely not an ancient conflict.

11:27

How did it feel to me?

11:30

It felt stupid.

11:33

I mean, why should I have access to real estate?

11:36

I mean, you know, just because of the the circumstance of my birth,

11:42

you know, I can settle

11:44

on the West Bank and be given incentives to do so.

11:47

I can become an Israeli citizen immediately.

11:51

Okay.

11:53

When Muslims and Christians whose families have been there

11:56

for many centuries,

12:00

not only don’t have the same rights that I do,

12:03

but are being mercilessly slaughtered at this very moment,

12:09

so it’s an obscenity.

12:12

And it gave me great pride and pleasure to be able to pull a Palestinian flag out of my backpack

12:18

at that moment.

12:20

Why do business at a religious building?

12:23

That’s after the break.

12:28

These property fairs, just like the homes that they’re selling, are not available to everyone, right?

12:32

They’re restricted to only Jewish people, and they’re being offered inside synagogues.

12:36

Right? It just bears repeating.

12:38

Does that surprise you to see real estate in Israel

12:42

being sold inside houses of worship inside the United States?

12:46

I’m really glad that you asked that, because there’s a reason for it.

12:48

And I found out the reason, going back to the very first

12:54

demonstration that I organized,

12:56

it was at Bnai Yeshurun Synagogue here in Teaneck, New Jersey.

13:01

And the rabbi at the time was Steven Pruzansky.

13:06

And he wanted me to know

13:09

that the reason that these real estate

13:12

events are held in the synagogue,

13:16

is because he feels

13:20

that the redemption of the land is a religious duty.

13:24

And he wanted me to know that not only are these events filled in the synagogue,

13:30

he was having this event in the sanctuary of the synagogue,

13:34

in the place where religious worship happens.

13:38

Teaneck is a very diverse and a very divided town.

13:41

You used to have a Muslim mayor.

13:43

There’s currently an Orthodox Jewish deputy mayor.

13:46

I wonder how October 7th and what’s happened subsequently in Gaza

13:51

changed things in Teaneck?

13:55

Well,

13:57

October 7th led to,

14:02

a pro-Israel resolution being passed by our town council.

14:07

We have one,

14:11

town council member who is, I would say,

14:15

an over the top histrionic Zionist

14:18

who since October 7th, has become way

14:21

more of an activist for Israel than she is an active council member.

14:26

That’s just my opinion.

14:28

But she took it upon herself

14:31

to write an anti-Hamas pro-Israel resolution,

14:37

and she brought it in front of the town council.

14:41

Very unfortunately, it passed on October 17th.

14:45

I sat in the building right behind us condemning the terrorist group Hamas as out of town

14:50

protesters were shouting the genocidal chant

14:53

from river to sea, Palestine will be free.

14:55

And I was shaking with fear, thinking, these people are calling for our deaths.

15:01

So the Jewish community acted like

15:07

there was this huge resurgence of what they call anti-Semitism.

15:13

In my opinion, there was no anti-Semitism at all.

15:17

There were demonstrations against illegal real estate events.

15:23

So we’ve had a series of demonstrations,

15:26

and we’ve also had a lot of car rallies where people drive

15:30

through the town waving Palestinian flags and honking,

15:34

then 20, 30, 40 cars driving by the town.

15:38

That alone is driving them nuts.

15:40

You get people from all walks of faith, all religions, all races.

15:46

You know, they say whatever they want without inciting hate crimes.

15:49

We’re just driving to town peacefully and this is how we get attacked.

15:52

So the Jewish community has been

15:56

complaining that they are under siege by anti-Semites.

16:01

Okay.

16:02

So then you go to local authorities, use and ask them to step in,

16:07

but it looks like they’ve already taken sides and it’s not yours.

16:11

So tell me how that unfolded.

16:14

The police force here, it’s a suburban police force.

16:18

They’re not used to that kind of controversy.

16:21

We did have an incident this summer

16:25

where there was going to be another

16:28

illegal real estate event, and I was organizing a demonstration against it,

16:32

and the police department got in touch with me

16:37

and told me that the real estate event was canceled.

16:39

And would I cancel my demonstration,

16:42

and I responded to them, well, I’m going to need proof of that.

16:46

So they sent me an email

16:49

from the real estate company stating that the event was canceled.

16:54

And so I viewed it as a big, big victory.

16:56

And I canceled my demonstration.

17:01

And, the real estate event went on as planned.

17:06

The police insist that they didn’t lie to me,

17:10

that they were lied to by the Israeli real estate company.

17:15

Okay.

17:15

And that’s the upshot there.

17:18

So what I learned is that I’m not going to believe them anymore.

17:24

And where’s the township council and all of this?

17:29

The township council?

17:31

They listen to me when I come in and speak.

17:35

There are many other people who speak.

17:39

During this genocide, there have been,

17:44

members of the Muslim community

17:46

who have come into town council meetings just to read off names.

17:51

And I should mention that at one meeting,

17:55

a local woman started reading off names of infants

18:00

that were killed before their first birthday, and she had three minutes to do it.

18:05

In three minutes, she couldn’t get beyond the first letter of the alphabet.

18:10

And that was deeply disturbing.

18:14

So, my impression is they just don’t want to be bothered.

18:18

You know. I wonder if there is, if you’ve seen any change.

18:22

I know if we talked about how in 2007, no one paid any attention to this, and now people are.

18:28

And that’s positive.

18:29

But have you seen any difference in your community?

18:32

Do you feel like you’ve been able to convince other people in the Jewish community,

18:36

possibly to join your fight and to put an end to this practice of selling real estate in the West Bank?

18:43

I think that there’s been an absolutely huge difference,

18:49

not only in this community, but in this country.

18:52

I mean, people are awakening to the Palestinian cause.

18:57

When I first got started in this issue, if I said I was supporting

19:01

Palestine, people would look at me cross-eyed and say, are you kidding?

19:05

You know, you’re supporting terrorists, you know, and

19:09

especially with this genocide this past year,

19:13

people understand that Israel is the terrorist,

19:16

that Palestinians are innocent civilians

19:19

who are being robbed of literally everything,

19:23

including in many cases, their lives.

19:26

So in Teaneck, specifically,

19:31

the Jewish community, the, the Zionist community

19:35

is most of the Jewish community, and they’re kind of like a medically sealed bubble.

19:40

They regurgitate their own lies and they haven’t changed at all.

19:45

They become totally defensive.

19:48

But I think in a really big way,

19:52

people are are waking up to the just position

19:57

that the Palestinian cause has.

20:01

Rich Siegel of Teaneck, New Jersey, thank you for coming on The Take.

20:05

Well, thank you for having me.

20:06

It’s been my pleasure.

20:10

And that’s The Take.

20:12

So what are your thoughts on these Jewish only real estate fairs?

20:16

Well, let us know in the comments below.

20:18

And if you want to catch more episodes like this, make sure you’re following our YouTube playlist.

20:24

That’s where you’ll find our recent content, updated

20:27

regularly so you’ll never miss an episode.

20:30

And while you’re at it, hit that subscribe button so you’ll stay in the loop with all things Al Jazeera English.

20:36

See you tomorrow.

oooooo

@tobararbulu # mmt@tobararbulu

ooo

Why is Israel cracking down on the West Bank after Gaza ceasefire? | The Take

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4Mw4cwHpqI)

There is no ceasefire in the occupied West Bank. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced the start of a “large-scale military operation” in Jenin targeting a hospital and refugee camp. Meanwhile, a new US administration has endorsed Israel’s “biblical dominion” and lifted sanctions on settlers. What does this new escalation mean for Palestinians, and what might come next? In this episode: 

• Zena Tahhan, Journalist

Episode credits:

This episode was produced by Sarí el-Khalili, Sonia Bhagat, and Amy Walters with Phillip Lanos, Spencer Cline, Khaled Soltan, Marcos Bartolome, Melanie Marich, Hagir Saleh, Hanah Shokeir, and our host, Kevin Hirten. It was edited by Noor Wazwaz.   Our sound designer is Alex Roldan.

Our video editors are Hisham Abu Salah and Mohannad Al-Melhem. Alexandra Locke is The Take’s executive producer. Ney Alvarez is Al Jazeera’s head of audio.

Transkripzioa:

0:02

Al Jazeera Podcasts.

0:05

Today, Israel pivots from Gaza and doubles down on the West Bank.

0:09

It’s the Israeli military’s biggest operation

0:12

in the occupied West Bank since the start of the new year.

0:16

With Donald Trump in the White House.

0:18

What does this mean for Palestinians in the occupied territory?

0:22

I’m Kevin Hirten and this is The Take.

0:30

The situation inside is very sad, these people have,

0:34

socially, financially they are destroyed.

0:37

They have no one to, to defend them.

0:39

They have no one to support them.

0:41

The Palestinian Authority is trying to destroy them as much as Israel is.

0:45

And and it’s not just about Jenin.

0:47

If it’s Jenin today, it will be the rest of the West Bank tomorrow.

0:53

My name is Zena Tahhan.

0:55

I’m a Palestinian journalist.

0:57

I’m based between occupied Jerusalem and the West Bank.

1:01

I’ve been covering Palestine, mainly as a print journalist initially.

1:05

And then now I’m also doing TV, videos for social media and things like that.

1:11

Well, welcome to The Take.

1:13

You’ve been busy reporting from Jerusalem and the West Bank, and we’re catching you today in between live shots.

1:18

So there are other reporters that might be heard in the background, but that’s because you’re very busy,

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so thank you for your time.

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Zena, following a year and a half of horror for the Palestinians, earlier

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this week, people were out in the streets of the West Bank celebrating this ceasefire, but the mood has quickly changed.

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Israeli military vehicles were seen raiding Jenin

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refugee camp after an airstrike on a car.

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Israel launched a deadly campaign

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on the Jenin refugee camp in the north of the occupied West Bank.

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Can you just start by getting us up to speed?

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What has been happening there this week? Yes.

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So let me say, first of all, before we talk about the Israeli

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military assault that began on Tuesday,

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the Jenin refugee camp had been under a siege

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for over 40 days by the Palestinian Authority.

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Now, Jenin is known for decades, it’s been,

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a bastion of armed resistance.

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And even though over the past two decades,

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Israel and the PA kind of managed to,

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deconstruct that state of armed resistance,

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we saw since 2021, reemergence.

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And not just in Jenin. We saw it in other cities.

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It quickly spread to other cities in the occupied West Bank, including Nablus,

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Tubas and other areas.

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So, Jenin, the Israeli army turned to it two days after the ceasefire.

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People didn’t have, like, a second to just breathe and for one day

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not see Palestinians being killed or Palestinian blood being shed.

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Fadi Saadi’s brother was walking in the neighborhood when he was shot

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and killed by Israeli forces.

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He went to get bread from the shop nearby.

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He was shot by a sniper.

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Dozens of other Palestinians have been injured, including children.

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So the fact that it started two days after the ceasefire, when people were finally had a moment of relief

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and of just like, you know, a feeling that they can go to sleep at night

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knowing that they’re not going to wake up, seeing hundreds of Palestinians massacred

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or horrific videos of their bodies being eaten by animals

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or and everything we’ve seen over the past 15 months.

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So the Jenin refugee camp was under a siege by the PA and now,

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the Israeli army has gone and,

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and so far they’ve killed in the past two days, 12 Palestinians.

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The first day, ten of those were killed, ten of those people were killed in the first day.

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The people there are being attacked by two sides.

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One of them is one of the most advanced, armies in the world,

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the Israeli army.

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And the PA is basically a police state that is funded and supported by the EU

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and by the U.S., as a way to,

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basically, keep people in the West Bank to keep them pacified.

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The PA role is administrative.

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It has no rule in the occupied West Bank.

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They only have an administrative role or they are out,

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arresting people that try to fight Israel.

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So the idea that the Palestinian Authority is trying to prevent Palestinians

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from their own choice to resist Israel is in itself like for people a little hard to grasp.

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Yeah.

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There’s always been a fraught relationship with the Palestinian Authority.

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But what you’re talking about is, it sounds truly remarkable.

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Is that fraying even even more than it has in the past?

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In the past few days,

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what we’ve been seeing is people saying that this is a joint joint operation by the PA and Israel.

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The fact that Israel is striking the camp while the PA is there.

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I mean, we’ve always known that there’s security coordination, and that’s in the DNA of the PA

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of how it was structured and why it was created in the first place.

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But both of them attacking at the same time.

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This is a first,

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and it’s extremely, extremely worrying. Kevin.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Israel’s Defense Minister Israel Katz, said on Wednesday

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that the Jenin operation marks a shift in Israel’s military plan in the occupied West Bank

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and that they’re applying, quote, lessons from Gaza in this operation.

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We’ve done a lot of episodes in Jenin in the past, but does

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what’s happening there now feel different to you?

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Yeah.

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How quickly they went in?

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It’s like they were preparing for this.

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They have been preparing for this for ages.

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The fact that they are,

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creating, like, evacuation corridors out of the camp,

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it’s like, resembling what’s happened to Jabalia in northern Gaza.

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And they are, interrogating people.

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Five people at a time.

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Families, sick people.

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They’re pushing people out of the camp.

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And let’s not forget, the Palestinians in the Jenin refugee

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camp are displaced and their infrastructure is ruined.

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And it’s like nonstop Israeli raids that have really made it impossible for people to keep living there.

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And they have nowhere else to go.

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These are 1948 refugees and their descendants.

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They’ve, again, all the Palestinians living in refugee

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camps have remained in these camps since 1948.

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Can you talk a little bit more about Jenin, for people who just might not know the context here?

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How it’s become not only a center of Palestinian resistance,

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but also a symbol of that resistance and why that makes it a target?

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Yeah.

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Well, I’ll give a little background and then I’ll talk about more recently what’s happened.

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So Jenin, since the second Intifada,

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between 2000 and 2005, it

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was one of the main areas, from which armed operations would emerge.

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During the intifada, which was mostly an armed intifada,

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as opposed to the first one, which was mostly non-armed.

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After that, we saw the PA was created and Israel,

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completely destroyed all the infrastructure

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of the PA and, and, and in other areas.

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And they totally removed the weapons and everything.

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Now, since 2021, and particularly around the events of Sheikh Jarrah,

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which took like international attention, around

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then we started to see a reemergence of very limited,

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armed resistance in areas like Jenin, Nablus, Tubas

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and the northern occupied West Bank.

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These these young men, they’re mainly,

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they’re between 18 and up to 30, but the majority of them are in their early 20s.

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Many of them, would save up and then buy their own rifles with their own money,

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like it’s on a personal initiative because they feel like, they have no future.

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They also feel like there is no political horizon.

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The interesting thing about these camps is that it’s a very community-led initiative.

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So, you’d see things like that are not about,

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armed resistance, but they’re

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about putting obstacles in the face of the Israeli army to make it more difficult for them.

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So the community itself and the camp put up canopies,

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all over the camp to cover the fighters from the Israeli planes and warplanes.

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They also put surveillance cameras all over the camp.

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And this is personal, people’s personal community led initiatives.

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They also created their own, like they call them hedgehogs, that they used

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I think World War two, to stop the tank, the

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the military vehicles from from coming in.

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And every time when an Israeli raid on Jenin and you will see all the entrances of the camp

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be blocked again within minutes, like everything is set up all over again.

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As we sit here today, thousands of Palestinians have already been displaced there.

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The United Nations is warning that Israel’s ongoing attacks

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have left the Jenin refugee camp, quote, nearly uninhabitable.

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I mean, when you bomb a refugee camp, where are refugees supposed to go?

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And that’s what I want to ask, where we’re talking about families.

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We’re talking about children. Where are they?

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How are they staying warm?

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Yeah.

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I mean, every time that they have to leave their homes, they either find somewhere to rent

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or they find family members, or they find, people

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who just open their homes for them to, to,

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to stay.

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But it’s always temporary.

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They always return. And,

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the nice thing about Palestinians is that you won’t see anyone sleeping in the street anywhere.

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Even though people’s situation here are so difficult.

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You’ll never find homeless people.

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Someone will take them.

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And always,

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And I think that’s what keeps people strong.

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And, they know that Israel is trying to turn

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the camp against the resistance, but the resistance is part of the camp.

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These are the sons of the families of the camp,

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in the same way that Hamas are the sons of the families in Gaza.

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They’re not separate from the Palestinian people.

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They are a product of the Palestinian people.

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More with Zena Tahhan after a quick break.

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So, Zena,

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as we as we broaden in the lens, let’s talk about some other issues.

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One of the first executive orders from U.S. President Donald Trump

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was to lift sanctions against violent Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

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Now, I know settler violence has been on the rise in the West Bank.

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But are we seeing any direct implications since the signing of this executive order?

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Has it already increased violence?

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I can’t say firmly

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that the increase in violence is tied to Trump removing the sanctions.

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But obviously for the settlers themselves, it’s a green light for them to do whatever they want.

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Settler attacks is one of the most important issues, Kevin, in my opinion.

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I think that the West Bank is coming to a very difficult phase.

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And specifically the villages, the villages are on the front lines

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of these attacks because there is no PA, there is no like no kind of defense.

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And they’re very alone.

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Israeli settlers have carried out more attacks on Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.

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Witnesses say dozens set on fire Palestinian homes and businesses

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in the towns of Al Funduq and Jinsafut, east of Qalqilya.

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The Palestinian Red Crescent says 12 people were injured.

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Every single Palestinian city, every village,

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every town is surrounded by Israeli checkpoints, by huge illegal settlements.

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And obviously that comes with army military infrastructure to protect the settlers.

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They’re like they’re like castles.

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Like castles on the hills.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Every village is fighting its own battle as we saw in Beita,

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remember, save Beita, safe Sheikh Jarrah, save Khan al Ahmar.

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Every one of those had to fight their own battles.

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They have been saying for years, every time I’ve gone, they’ve been saying, we want protection.

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We need protection because massacres are coming.

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And the residents know that massacres are coming and they know

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like they there’s no way to defend themselves.

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So actually, what’s interesting is that, you see, you’re seeing young men at night

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just gather and try to defend the villages from settler attacks at night.

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They don’t have weapons, but they try to confront and block as much as they can.

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And you kind of have these like, nightly

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units that are basically observing and keeping an eye on the village.

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Hovering above all of this is the threat of annexation.

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Trump’s pick for the U.N. ambassador,

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Elise Stefanik, agreed in a congressional hearing that Israel has a biblical

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right to the West Bank, which echoes the rhetoric of far right Israelis.

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At at the same hearing, asked whether Palestinians have the right of self-determination, she did not give an answer.

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I asked you in my office also about whether Palestinians

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have the right of self-determination.

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My understanding was you said yes.

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You have a different answer today.

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That was not the direct question that we discussed.

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I said the Palestinians,

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the Palestinians have the right to self-determination.

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I believe the Palestinian people deserve so much better than the failures that they’ve had

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from terrorist leadership. Agreed on that, it’s just a pretty simple question.

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So with the Biden administration, there was at least this kind of pretext of restraint.

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Is annexation something that Palestinians are starting to talk seriously about,

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especially if Trump gives the most radical impulses of this Israeli government a completely free hand?

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I would say analysts are talking about it.

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But people on the ground like. Kevin, you have to understand that there’s a de facto annexation in the occupied West Bank.

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Already there, the Israeli army has full control all over.

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The settlers have civil rights.

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The Palestinians do not. They live under military rule.

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And if Israel annexes the occupied West Bank, they’re not going to give the Palestinians Israeli passports.

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Nor do the Palestinians want Israeli passports. Right.

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So the situation is going to remain as it is.

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It’s going to be Palestinians living in these cantons and this Bantustans, under military rule.

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And it’s all under Israel’s control.

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The PA, will we see that? I think that’s the question is, is the PA going to stay?

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And maybe we’re going to go back to how it was

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before the PA, which is direct military occupation,

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where if you need anything to do with civil affairs or papers

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or birth or whatever, you need to go to the Israeli army, not the Palestinian Authority.

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We may see Israel destroy the PA and

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and just impose like a direct military occupation.

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But in terms of annexation, we’re already there.

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We’re talking about more than,

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just 18% of the occupied West Bank.

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That’s not that doesn’t have settlements. That’s nothing left.

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There’s nothing.

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People are being squeezed and squeezed and squeezed.

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As we wrap up, since Israel’s war on Gaza began

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in October 2023, hundreds of Palestinian boys in the West Bank have been killed.

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Thousands have been wounded.

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And that was when the focus was Gaza.

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Right now, we’re in this new phase.

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There was a headline at aljazeera.com this week that said Deadly West

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Bank attack mirrors military action in Gaza.

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That’s that’s a scary headline.

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Do you get the sense that people are preparing themselves for at least a possibility

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that this gets really bad in the West Bank, that

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what Israel has planned is something at scale,

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something that, as the headline says, does mirror military action in Gaza.

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Yeah.

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I think that, people are very afraid.

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I don’t think they they assume that it will happen quickly.

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I think they know that this is a long term plan.

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They know Israel’s goals are to kick some out, either kill

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as many Palestinians as possible and push out as many Palestinians as possible.

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I think that throughout the 15 months people were going through ebbs and flows of fear

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where they would go out and like buy everything in the supermarket, buy tons of flour.

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That happened at least maybe 6 or 7 times

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throughout the war on Gaza here in the West Bank.

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So yes, people are very afraid.

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They I can’t say that they think

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that it will be the same amount of destruction as Gaza.

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I think it will be hard because obviously Gaza was a prison.

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It’s a it’s a concentration camp where they can do that here.

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It’s a bit more difficult.

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It’s a larger area.

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And there are other factors, but definitely they

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if they believe that there is, mass displacement coming for sure.

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And that’s The Take.

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We’re always listening to what you think of the show.

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So let us know what kind of episodes you’d like to hear more of and what you thought of this one.

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We do read the comments, so go ahead and put your thoughts below and we will check them out.

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I promise.

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